Phosphate Elimination Products

[Maxima]

I'm only compiling base on Lab test done in German & UK. This is test base on Media type PO4 Absorbing products. Bacteria & other type not tested.

The truth that Rowaphos is patent product by Weil Industry(Rowa).

Only Rowaphos work ahead of the competition. It will reduce PO4 and Silicates.

Only Rowaphos is tested to lower Seawater lower than 0.08ppm PO4.

Non of the products can do that. - Don't believe? Use a Merc Lab test kit - U can get it at eAquanature for $250/kit

To give you an idea. 200g of Rowa outperform 1kg of item 8.

So what's the only solution? RowaPhos.

Rowa is OEM and market under different name? Not too sure.

As AT stated that the Contraphos Concentrate is the same OEM by Rowa. I'm not too sure any other new brands that is OEM by Rowa beside Rowaphos & Contraphos & 2 other brands {W%% & A%%%)? Maybe somone who knows can share?

How to know you are buying your money($) worth of Rowa base OEM products regardless of brand

Check the moisture- Rowaphos claim to have the lowest moisture. They claim other brand name add a cup of water to their products So when you buy 1L, maybe 50g are water

Don't be CON by those bullshit that the color looks different because they add enhancer Rowa is patented and has the highest rate of absorbing PO4 & silicates. So what enhancer you need? So the trick here is to mix 70~80% real Rowa and 20~30% normal coal and stated it as a enhancer

There's a review in Europe and report can be purchased at a minimal fees - NO BULLSHIT

1 Aqualine Antiphos

2 JBL PhosEx

3 Amtra Phosphat reduct

4 Rowa Rowaphos

5 Aquaconnect Contraphos

6 Seachem PhosGuard

7 Tropic Marin Elimi-Phos

8. PhosBan

9. Aquaconnect Contraphos Concentrate

10. BioPhos

11. Phos Away

Max

[Maxima]

I receive a number of PMs on the other 2 brands that used the Rowa Formula. Plse, I'll not want to disclose the brand, as it is their disadvantage, so we should respect that different product, differnet price point and different customer.

Due to their mixing of high % of coal & carbon into the product that make it cheaper. Anyway I "think" these 2 products not sold in S'pore yet.

Max

[weisoon]

Still go with ROWA 101%. Remember that I read somewhere that they are supplying Rowa in a HUGE reactor to clean up the PO4 in a HUGE lake! Think the lake is in Germany. The reactor is so huge that I estimated to take at least 10 lorry loads to fill it up!

[lightningstrike]

me too!!! Rowaphos....... all the way......

[AlfaRomeo]

and pls use a reactor if you can. increases the effectiveness of the products by a few folds.

[lightningstrike]

and pls use a reactor if you can. increases the effectiveness of the products by a few folds.

Reactor??? i dump rowa phos, carbon and polyfilter into my cannister ehiem 2026. i wonder if that doubles up as a reactor???

[Maxima]

and pls use a reactor if you can. increases the effectiveness of the products by a few folds.

It is confirm effectiveness of 300% more, but the CONs is that Rowaphos get exhausted faster - need more reguler changes, but it will cut short your bryopsis boom cycle.

Max

[AlfaRomeo]

So Max, the question will be, when will the FR from deltec be arriving? hehehe. Can wait to spend more of my hard-earned $ on my reef tank. Hope my wife dunt see this. hehehe

[Maxima]

So Max, the question will be, when will the FR from deltec be arriving? hehehe. Can wait to spend more of my hard-earned $ on my reef tank. Hope my wife dunt see this. hehehe

Hoping Mid-June, everything in backlog.............quality cannot be rushed lah.

Max

[woonming]

Max the product u listed above, is listed under which order?

Isit cheapest from top to bottom or best in terms of pricing and quality from top to bottom?

[Achilles Tang]

Izzit the lab test that cost 0.50 Euro for each product...

Being secretive again, Max? You talking about the L**s S******a lab tests?

Be generous and post it for all of us to see leh!

And don't leave out details again leh... full picture pls!

[robe]

Again I'm intrigued by all this review and I guess I don't have experience in using any of the phosphate eliminators or comparing them against each other. I don't test phosphates anyway...... (all I do is look at my SPS whether they are doing well or not, growing or retarded)

Max, since you have daringly put yourself in the line to preach Rowaphos why not post the test results online and let the reefers judge for themselves on the test results or better yet why not conduct a test scientifically here in Singapore.

How it may be done:

1. Create a phosphate laden container of water and have it tested by a laboratory for phosphate content

2. Measure equal volumes of the water in containers

3. Measure equal weight of phosphate remover (from the various brands available in singapore - note that the sample should be based on weight not volume)

4. Put the phospate remover media into a glass cylinder or pipe or any material that is know to be inert and does not leach phospate . The container should be equal in diameter and lenght. The bottom should have a sieve to prevent the media from dropping

5 Pour the water into the column holding the phospate remover. Please note the phospate content should be higher that what the remover can absorb for the given volume of water. ( the remover should be activated by pouring only hot deionised water - again no gas stoves should be used to heat the water)

6. The water poured through the media should be collected in a glass container again ) container must be cleaned prior to test to remove residue from surface (no detergent to be used to clean any of the containers- detergent contains organo phospates)

7. The water collected from each brand of remover should then be analysed for phosphate content.

8. the water sample that has the least amount of phospate is the winner...

Since this involve some cost, maybe the various LFS touting their products can defray the costs of the test as well as provide the sample for testing. (All media remover sample should come from a previously unopened off the shelf stock)

Care for any phosphate remover distributor or dealer to take the taste test???????

[moron_clown]

and once again the saga continues...

[Achilles Tang]

Hi everyone,

I believe I have found this 'super secret' Lab Test that Maxima is refering to!

It's actually in public domain but you have to pay for each product parameter that this German hobbyist has lab analysed (I believe he has a spectrometer in his lab... wow!!).

Robe, your proposed testings should be done with as much control as a lab would... maybe this info that I am sharing will help us better?

From my very limited German language skills (hahahaha.... its a secret how I can 'translate' ).

This German lab guy bought all the phosphate removal products himself. He bought what was on the shelves in their original packaging and the newest stocks probably for 'freshness'.

These are the list of products that was tested.

1 Aqualine Antiphos

2 JBL PhosEx

3 Amtra Phosphate reduct

4 Rowa Rowaphos (Is Max reporting for Contraphos Konzentrat as well?)

5 Aquaconnect Contraphos (500ml mixed product version)

6 Seachem PhosGuard

7 Tropic marine Elimi Phos

He appears to consider the differences in the physical properties of each phosphate media particle and how they affect absorption. He also measures how the media absorbs and holds the phosphate and even yellowing compounds if they have activated charcoal or some other media mixed inside them.

-----------------------------------------------------

(Below are the pertinent points of the lab test and is translated in broken english but you should get the general idea! )

Sea water:

Part 2: Adsorption speed

In the case of this measurement the adsorption speed is determined.

5.00 g adsorbents are given to 100 ml sea waters, which an exact quantity orthophosphate (contains and slowly one flows through. A "Drueberspuelen" or short vibrating is not meaningful here and leads to substantial faulty measurements. After

0,25 (15 min)

0,5 (30 min)

1

2

4 and

24

Hours that is determined phosphate content with a laboratory photometer in the sea water. In addition a very small part of the solution is removed and filtered over a special membrane filter. Thus all particles are held back. If the water which can be measured is not diaphragm-filtered, likewise substantial measuring errors showed up by the arrears of the adsorbent in the sample. E.G. because acid can set the phosphate free again.

The aquarium water, was from my sea water aquarium and by means of ICP analysis exactly was before examined. Measuring errors of up to 30% showed artificially set sea water (salt + osmose water + aging + phosphate)!! with comparative measurements! The test is to be accomplished on practice conditions and covered this continuous washing around of the adsorbent and a natural sea water sample.

So that the reader can deal more easily with the numerical values, the adsorbed quantity phosphate was referred to 100g adsorbent.

Example

Part 3: Binding ability

In the case of this measurement the binding ability is determined.

An exact quantity of adsorbents is given to an exact quantity of sea water, which contains an exact quantity orthophosphate and slowly flowed through. It must be so for a long time flowed around, until the phosphate concentration does not change any longer. Since this takes some weeks, the measurements are still to run. A measured value after some hours is here not meaningfully and completely wrong concerning the binding ability. To the comparison see also the values from the example after 2, 4 and 24 hours from part of 2. Even after weeks the adsorbents take up still phosphate. Of the photograph capacity and/or binding ability can be spoken thus only if the phosphate concentration does not change any longer.

Part 4: Aluminum delivery

Since nearly all adsorbents contain aluminum, that is determined aluminum content water according to the adsorption.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The hyperlink for this site is: http://www.lars-sebralla.de/ma_p_adsorb.html, you can use Yahoo's translater to translate into English but you will get broken english!

See for yourselves!

It would be interesting if Max reveals the lab results for each product since he has obviously paid for them already. But if he has no wish to share with us because its his money.... then there's nothing to say.

Results of the lab tests:

Part 1: Contents materials (seperated into 3 parts to cater for the mixed products)

Part 2: Absorption speed (saltwater results out)

Part 3: Binding ability (not available yet)

Part 4: Aluminum leaching (not available yet)

I believe sharing information helps the reefing community and may even give a wakeup call to manufacturers, sales & marketing reps to improve/price their products better as educated hobbyists will not want to be kept in the dark for too long.

Sorry if I 'picha' the lobang, Max, but you don't mind if I let them into this info, right?

SRC reefers should SHARE, TEACH & EDUCATE fellow reefers to become better hobbyists.... and I believe the best principle is to simply lead by example. I am not Mr Perfect or Mr Know it All or Mr Always Right but I want to see SRC hobbyists improve themselves with knowledge. (I better stop here before I get more holes in my back. )

Perhaps some loaded people without commercial interests in the products can sponsor the results for our analysis? Coz I bring in Aquaconnect stuff and Maxima (I heard from reliable sources) may be the new Rowaphos distributor? Correct me if I am wrong!

I just curious where the following brands (in red) suddenly pop out from in Max's list coz I don't see it anywhere in the site. (or maybe I'm just totally lost! )

1 Aqualine Antiphos

2 JBL PhosEx

3 Amtra Phosphate reduct

4 Rowa Rowaphos (Contraphos Konzentrat - aren't they the same?)

5 Aquaconnect Contraphos (500ml mixed product version is the one being tested)

6 Seachem PhosGuard

7 Tropic marine Elimi Phos

8. PhosBan

9. Aquaconnect Contraphos Concentrate

10. BioPhos

11. Phos Away

Even the index page here (you have to click on the link that says: Analyse: 7 Phosphatentferner: Aus was bestehen sie und was können sie) which shows 'NEU' (for new!) results don't have the red highlighted products being tested.

Or is it done by another lab? Max... care to clarify and share more info?

Or is it gleaned from another phosphate test results that I have posted sometime back here?

[Achilles Tang]

Hey Max,

Two fiery product reviews from you in a day.... !

Hope you don't mind but I am also very interested to engage in an intellectual debate here.... well actually... more like clarification on your statements. I don't have any chemistry background and am not a 'guru', hehehe. Hope you can clear the air as people are getting quite confused about what you're trying to hammer home.

Only Rowaphos is tested to lower Seawater lower than 0.08ppm PO4.

Cool! I have always liked and endorsed Rowaphos before.

Non of the products can do that. - Don't believe? Use a Merc Lab test kit - U can get it at eAquanature for $250/kit

Holy Cow!! That's one hell of a expensive test kit man!

To give you an idea. 200g of Rowa outperform 1kg of item 8.

See above thread... one of the questions I posed was about item 8. Where's the data for this item 8? Share leh.

So what's the only solution? RowaPhos.

Solution for what? KIDDING!!!

Rowa is OEM and market under different name? Not too sure.

As AT stated that the Contraphos Concentrate is the same OEM by Rowa. I'm not too sure any other new brands that is OEM by Rowa beside Rowaphos & Contraphos & 2 other brands {W%% & A%%%)? Maybe somone who knows can share?

To be honest, a long time ago before even the 500ml Contraphos mixed product even came to Singapore, I read about this statement a long time ago that they are identical (see the link here) and judged that this product was not as efficient vs the 500ml Rowaphos because visually & by personal testing that they are not... (see Bawater's product review)

Maybe the manufacturer may not want this fact to be so publicly known...? There has been neither a dispute to this statement nor affirmation.

How to know you are buying your money($) worth of Rowa base OEM products regardless of brand

IMO, you will only know if the content and properties are studied and you judge the value & efficiency vs the $$$ you pay for it. If I pay Mercedes-Benz money, I don't expect to get a Hyundai performance (no offence to Hyundai car owners! ) But if my Hyundai looks & performs the same as a Mercedes-Benz at a lower price... why not?)

Check the moisture- Rowaphos claim to have the lowest moisture. They claim other brand name add a cup of water to their products   So when you buy 1L, maybe 50g are water 

Who is they? Wow.. any facts or evidence to show that all the other brands 'spike' their products intentionally? The lab results you have?

Don't be CON  by those bullshit that the color looks different because they add enhancer  Rowa is patented and has the highest rate of absorbing PO4 & silicates. So what enhancer you need?  So the trick here is to mix 70~80% real Rowa and 20~30% normal coal and stated it as a enhancer 

Nobody likes to be conned. (Bullshit seems to be your favourite word these days to describe everything else apart from Deltec and Rowaphos ). Pay good money for whatever products only for the results you expect and for what you experienced yourself. I'm equally curious what's in the mixed products too!

There's a review in Europe and report can be purchased at a minimal fees - NO BULLSHIT

No bullshit? Where do we find the path to no bullshit?

No offence, Max... we await your enlightening info...! Please please please don't leave us dangling again!

[Edmund]

Coz I bring in Aquaconnect stuff and Maxima (I heard from reliable sources) may be the new Rowaphos distributor? Correct me if I am wrong!

AT

Perhaps you are getting a little excited over Max's ardent support for Rowaphos vs your Contraphos K.

This "intellectual" debate is purely between you fellows and I do not have the time to engage in it. I just step in to make a quick CLARIFICATION that WE are not distributor of Rowaphos, despite how reliable your sources are, which makes me wonder, are your sources trying to spread rumours without concrete evidence?

"BULLSHIT" is Max's unique style of expression, don't get offended.

Leave EAN out of this. Thanks.

PEACE

Edmund

[chanbi]

This is a good discussion and i really hope to see more test result to appreciate the comments better. Maybe cos' i'm a engr and i need to see data and analyse it to be fully convince?

Actually it has been quite a while that i seldom see good debate or discussion in SRC (versus good old days in yr 02). It is such discussions that i find that i learnt the most..

[Maxima]

Again I'm intrigued by all this review and I guess I don't have experience in using any of the phosphate eliminators or comparing them against each other. I don't test phosphates anyway...... (all I do is look at my SPS whether they are doing well or not, growing or retarded)

Max, since you have daringly put yourself in the line to preach Rowaphos why not post the test results online and let the reefers judge for themselves on the test results or better yet why not conduct a test scientifically here in Singapore.

How it may be done:

1. Create a phosphate laden container of water and have it tested by a laboratory for phosphate content

2. Measure equal volumes of the water in containers

3. Measure equal weight of phosphate remover (from the various brands available in singapore - note that the sample should be based on weight not volume)

4. Put the phospate remover media into a glass cylinder or pipe or any material that is know to be inert and does not leach phospate . The container should be equal in diameter and lenght. The bottom should have a sieve to prevent the media from dropping

5 Pour the water into the column holding the phospate remover. Please note the phospate content should be higher that what the remover can absorb for the given volume of water. ( the remover should be activated by pouring only hot deionised water - again no gas stoves should be used to heat the water)

6. The water poured through the media should be collected in a glass container again ) container must be cleaned prior to test to remove residue from surface (no detergent to be used to clean any of the containers- detergent contains organo phospates)

7. The water collected from each brand of remover should then be analysed for phosphate content.

8. the water sample that has the least amount of phospate is the winner...

Since this involve some cost, maybe the various LFS touting their products can defray the costs of the test as well as provide the sample for testing. (All media remover sample should come from a previously unopened off the shelf stock)

Care for any phosphate remover distributor or dealer to take the taste test???????

Hi Robert,

you might be lead to think I'm the Rowaphos Agent. The fact I'm not and I'm just as you do passionate about this hobby and use what I tested to be effective. Well If someone sell seomthing stating it ia 100% of ther other product and infact it is not, what's your position? Interest to know, since I respect you as a passionate hobbyist and we have different style of reef keeping.

BTW I don't sell RowaPhos nor am I an agent for Rowaphos in Asia. Why do I still use Rowphos till date? I don't get any benefit from it for paying high price to buy it if there is a alternative product...............

Max

[Maxima]

Hey Max,

Two fiery product reviews from you in a day.... ! 

Hope you don't mind but I am also very interested to engage in an intellectual debate here.... well actually... more like clarification on your statements. I don't have any chemistry background and am not a 'guru', hehehe. Hope you can clear the air as people are getting quite confused about what you're trying to hammer home.

Cool! I have always liked and endorsed Rowaphos before.

Holy Cow!! That's one hell of a expensive test kit man!

See above thread... one of the questions I posed was about item 8. Where's the data for this item 8? Share leh.

Solution for what? KIDDING!!!

To be honest, a long time ago before even the 500ml Contraphos mixed product even came to Singapore, I read about this statement a long time ago that they are identical (see the link here) and judged that this product was not as efficient vs the 500ml Rowaphos because visually & by personal testing that they are not... (see Bawater's product review)

Maybe the manufacturer may not want this fact to be so publicly known...? There has been neither a dispute to this statement nor affirmation.

IMO, you will only know if the content and properties are studied and you judge the value & efficiency vs the $$$ you pay for it. If I pay Mercedes-Benz money, I don't expect to get a Hyundai performance (no offence to Hyundai car owners! ) But if my Hyundai looks & performs the same as a Mercedes-Benz at a lower price... why not?)

Who is they? Wow.. any facts or evidence to show that all the other brands 'spike' their products intentionally? The lab results you have?

Nobody likes to be conned. (Bullshit seems to be your favourite word these days to describe everything else apart from Deltec and Rowaphos ). Pay good money for whatever products only for the results you expect and for what you experienced yourself. I'm equally curious what's in the mixed products too!

No bullshit? Where do we find the path to no bullshit?

No offence, Max... we await your enlightening info...! Please please please don't leave us dangling again!

Mr Conrad Chua,

I would like to stated the facts:

1. I stated that Rowaphos is not represent by me and if you stated in your earlier message that you are getting the agent right, isn't you happy that I just reveal the truth of a good product?

2. Your contraphos concentrate is 100% Rowaphos? This is questionabe from my part. You can get Aquaconnect to post their Material Content Specificaions to prove it? Or is it stated in the package - I just saw empty white bottle with no SPECIFICATIONS.

3. As I stated Rowa is patented and it is more effective than anything to remove PO4 & silicate, you don;t need to mix with other things. Mfgr mix with other stuffs to lower their own costs. Come on AT be objective.

4. Reports. There is a newer report available thru purchase. The one you posted is old................

Anyway say what you want and as always you are right in anything you and

everything...no problem.

I admit it's my mistake to reveal the truth on products you sell.

Max

[Maxima]

Again I'm intrigued by all this review and I guess I don't have experience in using any of the phosphate eliminators or comparing them against each other. I don't test phosphates anyway...... (all I do is look at my SPS whether they are doing well or not, growing or retarded)

Max, since you have daringly put yourself in the line to preach Rowaphos why not post the test results online and let the reefers judge for themselves on the test results or better yet why not conduct a test scientifically here in Singapore.

How it may be done:

1.  Create a phosphate laden container of water and have it tested by a laboratory for phosphate content

2.  Measure equal volumes of the water in containers

3.  Measure equal weight of phosphate remover (from the various brands available in singapore - note that the sample should be based on weight not volume)

4.    Put the phospate remover media into a glass cylinder or pipe or any material that is know to be inert and does not leach phospate . The container should be equal in diameter and lenght. The bottom should have a sieve to prevent the media from dropping

5 Pour the water into the column holding the phospate remover. Please note the phospate content should be higher that what the remover can absorb for the given volume of water. ( the remover should be activated by pouring only hot deionised water - again no gas stoves should be used to heat the water)

6. The water poured through the media should be collected in a glass container again ) container must be cleaned prior to test to remove residue from surface (no detergent to be used to clean any of the containers- detergent contains organo phospates)

7. The water collected from each brand of remover should then be analysed for phosphate content.

8. the water sample that has the least amount of phospate is the winner...

Since this involve some cost, maybe the various LFS touting their products can defray the costs of the test as well as provide the sample for testing. (All media remover sample should come from a previously unopened off the shelf stock)

Care for any phosphate remover distributor or dealer to take the taste test???????

Hi Robe

one more thing to add and that is Rowa was being delcared tha best product for PO4 removal and it is industrial knowledge. As I get ZERO financial benefit from them nor I'm the agent for Rowa. I think as a senior Reefer, you might want to write to Weil industry and ask for their Lab Report? If I post anything, our fellow Friend will be making noise again, maybe until the day he become the agent of that Product.

Max

[chanbi]

Ohh.. come on.. Let not stop here with the assumption that AT's always right or wrong! We have to be objective and i'm sure everyone of us here are not reading "blindly". It will be great if u can share the report with us and i'm sure many of us will be grateful and we want to know the trues and facts.

[roidan]

anyway, whether rowa or contaphos concentrate, both are premium products and are both very effective in removing phosphate even though i do not have quantitative lab reports....

on visual sight, both seem to be the same material of bituminous coal, of coz actual chemical composition may be different....that i dunno...

but definitely this physical similarity has tied them closely together in terms of performance and sets them apart from other phosphate media that looks vastly different...they are in a league of their own compared to other products

but of coz...rowa is supposedly more widely known and popular...a search in the internet of the word rowaphos brings up many many times more links than contraphos...

my personal opinion, both are equally good and even if there are minute performance differences between the 2, i think the price difference will be more important factor in purchasing decision...

let the price wars begin

[Maxima]

Ohh.. come on..    Let not stop here with the assumption that AT's always right or wrong! We have to be objective and i'm sure everyone of us here are not reading "blindly". It will be great if u can share the report with us and i'm sure many of us will be grateful and we want to know the trues and facts. 

Hi Bro,

Thanks for the support. I think I want to stop all these and it is taking too much of mytime and too many attacks from commercial interests at heart. I think the Agent of Rowaphos should step out, since he's the one representing the product.

I GET NOTHING OUT OF THIS WHY WASTE MYTIME!

Max

[Maxima]

anyway, whether rowa or contaphos concentrate, both are premium products and are both very effective in removing phosphate even though i do not have quantitative lab reports....

on visual sight, both seem to be the same material of bituminous coal, of coz actual chemical composition may be different....that i dunno...

but definitely this physical similarity has tied them closely together in terms of performance and sets them apart from other phosphate media that looks vastly different...they are in a league of their own compared to other products

my personal opinion, both are equally good and even if there are minute performance differences between the 2, i think the price difference will be more important factor in purchasing decision...

let the price wars begin

Rodian you are right on! I CANNOT THINK WHY SOMEONE is so upset, talk about woman being petty............boy what an eye opener

Max

[roidan]

max, dun start mud slinging lah

anyway, back to topic,, i am not siding maxima here,

but he is one reefer who has strong opinions on what he deems as good products...

expensive never mind, but must be effective, he cannot stand the sight of reefers spending even a single dollar on useless products...haha

i guess some of us here are thinking that now he is tied with ean, such opinions from him are biased towards his objectives...

but, please also remember that long before the tieup, all along he has been a strong supporter of rowaphos as well as deltec products...remember the bulk order of rowaphos he initiated that sadly din go through? as well as his contribution of knowledge on deltec fluidised CRs?

he feels that these products are worth standing up for and now that he is in a position to bring in such premium products for us, we should appreciate the introduction. otherwise, we will not be able to see deltecs here....other than our individual orders directly from internet or handbring in ourselves

we are a small community and do not have the critical mass to support a wide range of brand names, more so for the premium brands....

so while we appreciate the ongoing intellectual debate, we should appreciate that premium products like deltecs are soon coming to our shores