How to Test a Skimmer

[robe]

Okay, now let us put all the non-relevant stuffs aside and get back to the main topic of this thread and how skimmers can be compared.

Volunteers Anyone!!!!

Set aside a fibreglass tank of any other tank with a 500 litre capacity. Hook up the contending skimmers and fire away!!! (a tank has to be of a certain size as too small of tank will not have water left inside when the skimmers are started and the tank will be full of micro bubbles that might hinder the skimmers.........

[KingFish]

Keep this thread nice and clean guys

Stay on topic, and no personal attacks or insinuations of any sort please.

Or I'll take you down before you can say B-E-C-K-E-T-T or D-E-L-T-E-C

[flubberina13]

HOOAH!!!

(quoting Tanzy... )

May I have your autograph?

Yalor...at first it started out well...then personal feelings and competitive spirit got into the picture and then...

[Maxima]

I ROD(Release from Duties) from this thread liao

Let's put it his way, there's 2 pool of believers.

one like red wine and the other like white wine.

we start arguing which is better

Infact, there are both good and as well as crappy stuff from either type and all drills down to Brands & Yr of Harvest.

SURRENDER LIAO

[Joe_P]

Frankly, I'm pretty interested in how different types of skimmers function against each other in terms of performance, power consumption, time factor which skimming commences etc...

Putting aside the intention of this thread on Deltecs being better than most skimmers inclusive of Becketts, many reefers here (myself inclusive) would definitely like to see the results rather than just a thread with reefers gunning each other down.....

In fact, it would be good also to introduce the other brand of new skimmers recently introduced into SRC for the test....

[Joe_P]

I ROD(Release from Duties) from this thread liao

Let's put it his way, there's 2 pool of believers.

one like red wine and the other like white wine.

we start arguing which is better

Infact, there are both good and as well as crappy stuff from either type and all drills down to Brands & Yr of Harvest.

SURRENDER LIAO

Hi Max,

I think the issue here is no longer on who believes what .... or their preference..

But has to do more with proving or backing statements that has been mentioned...

Frankly, I have never seen Deltec Skimmers function before and your claims on them being one of the best in the industry did make me pretty curious.. since IMO, most needlewheels function the same to me.... (sorry, I'm not a very technical guy either and will therefore tend to use my eyes to see how they perform instead of jus some information on papers ).....

so let's not argue anymore on which is better.....

Most reefers should be able to form their own conclusion once a skimmer test is made and results are out....

[FuEl]

Think if the test were to take place, it would require alot of resources like space, manpower, financing?

Variables needed to be taken into account are numerous. Besides technical variables that need to be kept constant, so do physical factors. These would include the amount of D.O.C in each tank, specific gravity, pH, kH, temperature, etc. All these physical affects the viscousity of seawater, which can greatly affect skimming performance.

So in summary, it would be a huge challenge. However if it could be done, I'm sure we can attract international attention from fellow reefers in RC, etc.

[Achilles Tang]

Sigh.

You all have eyes to see and ears to hear.

I'm not going to waste any more time and energy trying to argue with someone who has a very set mind & opinion based on secret information privy only to himself.

As far as this product review is concerned, its all biased anyway.

NO MORE TALKING BULLSHIT.... LET'S DO THE SKIMMER TESTS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

I suggest all attention be put to laying down the framework for this experiment to take place in a secured 'neutral ground' environment with minimal variables, with zero loopholes, maximum fairness in a controlled way and verified by independants who can simply assess by simple observation how the skimmers eliminate each other from the competition.

Please contribute your ideas on how to achieve the perfect competition.

All parties will have to agree on the rules and guidelines and to set a date for the Ultimate Skimmer Test.

[Maxima]

Skimmer Test

ReefCentral Suggestions

Neutral guidlines from RC & another website that did test over several days to weeks

[robe]

IF we have their resources and technical knowledge of chemical analysis and the equipment ; that would be t he way BUT we are not that well endowed (not that type of endownment! Perverts!) in terms of resources, lab kits or equipment

So we conduct our own test on a real practical basis as we say no high falutin technical reports that we can barely understood. Just plain old see to believe!! Let's do a poor man's test..........at the end of the day plain old effectiveness of an equipment will satisfy our curiousity!

[Achilles Tang]

Ahhhh.. the first link was to the test done the Americans with the beckett, H&S, AquaC (i think) and a few other brands is no longer there! I believed the beckett skimmer blew away the competition.

The 2nd link would be better applied for tests beyond the ordinary & straightforward way and into the study of the content of skimmate by different skimmers.

I agree we should just stick with the suggested benchmarks as proposed by Robe for a 'road race test'.

[roidan]

i think were between aerofoamer (beckett), aquaC(spray injection), euroreef (needlewheel) and ETSS (downdraft) if i am not wrong...

there were 3 sections of the review if i am not wrong....

in fact i think all 4 did not disappoint....

some started foaming faster than others but some were more thorough in their skimming when they tested the the water samples after skimming...

my impression was that there were no out and out winner...some were better in certain aspects...but lost in other aspects.....

but i think the euroreef was one of the most consistent performer in most aspects...according to memory

but i am sure the aerofoamer was very fast to start foaming also...

the ETSS and aquaC not too far behind..

i think they tested for residue phosphates and some other stuff...hehe

wat a waste that the site is gone

[Maxima]

Ahhhh.. the first link was to the test done the Americans with the beckett, H&S, AquaC (i think) and a few other brands is no longer there! I believed the beckett skimmer blew away the competition.

The 2nd link would be better applied for tests beyond the ordinary & straightforward way and into the study of the content of skimmate by different skimmers.

I agree we should just stick with the suggested benchmarks as proposed by Robe for a 'road race test'.

In a Suggested "Road Race Test" by Robe, The Obvious winner is the Beckett or any Skimmer that uses a More Powerful Pressure Rated Pump. We are talking about the quality & consistency of the skimming from my first message. I do agree that the feasibility of conducting a through test and the equipment available is going to be tough to obtain.

Max

[robe]

Hi MAx,

We are not only after skimmate quantity but after the effectiveness. If they skim they same tank but one drops out after some time and can no longer skim anything while another is still left behind producing skimmate so who's the better skimmer? Simple judging. As you say no BS!

Robe

[Tanzy]

Skimmer can't be tested immediately once they are plugged in. They have to be tuned carefully over weeks if not months. Drawing on research experience in experiment design. I would have to suggest that the skimmers be tested on identical but individual set ups.

1) Perhaps hooked up to a 4' tank or tub each and carefully tuned to optimum.

2) Change out the water and clean the tub.

3) Equal volumes or weight of homogenised skimmate collected from all over Singapore be place into the tank.

4) At set intervals, hours or minutes depending on performance. Skimmate collected from skimmers, quantified or at least scored. I would suggest dry weight of skimmate as a good indicator.

This will provide a more accurate comparison.

[RockyBoy]

I dun think anyone here can test all the skimmer. Who are the judges anyway. I think, just forget it and accept the industrial facts that this skimmer is good, that skimmer is lousy etc.

It's like I have a 600cc kancil and I mod the car till I have 300hp and can outrun any evo around. So which is better car?

I still think is what you pay for is what you get

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm.... well its true we can't test all the skimmers.

But we can have 'higher grade' skimmers (the branded ones) road tests and we can have 'affordable range' skimmers doing their own road tests.

It's silly to put up a Weipro against a Deltec...

[blueheaven]

Why not we do tournament style, lower grade vs lower grade, higher grade vs higher grade.

Then after everything is done, we do a sort of ranking system

[Eric]

Why not we do tournament style, lower grade vs lower grade, higher grade vs higher grade.

Then after everything is done, we do a sort of ranking system

DIY vs DIY......

Eric

[LinkinPark]

Hi,

Let's not complicate the thread and goes back to the 1st post of this PRODUCT REVIEW. The main focus is: DELTEC vs BECKETT vs NEEDLE WHEEL

----------------From Max:------------------------

If you look at the overall performance of a lot different brand name skimmer, we tend to use the eyes

So what's the factual truth?

It's the Air & Water mixture. A good skimmer will be Air Suction Power with Water Ratio. If anyone wanted to test any skimmer, use a Air Suction Meter & Water Flow Meter. Deltec end up 300% to 20% against all Venturi and Needle Wheel major Brand name out there. An example will be the Deltec hang_on type skimmers vs brand name of RXX SXX of similar capacity.

RXX SXX brand produce 30L Air vs Deltec 312L ofthe same skimmer size

The only equipment that can match Deltec is the Beckett. But wait..............there's a catch.

-----------------From Robe-------------------------

Hi Max,

Since you put it so succinctly how Delteq outperforms the rest of the skimmers in the market why not conduct a real test based on actual performance.

On behalf of the Beckett skimmers fans in Singapore and all the needle wheel skimmers fans, there should be a challenge between skimmers see who can outlast the rest....

-----------------From Robe-------------------------

Set aside a fibreglass tank of any other tank with a 500 litre capacity. Hook up the contending skimmers and fire away!!! (a tank has to be of a certain size as too small of tank will not have water left inside when the skimmers are started and the tank will be full of micro bubbles that might hinder the skimmers.........

-----------------From Robe-------------------------

Just plain old see to believe!! Let's do a poor man's test..........at the end of the day plain old effectiveness of an equipment will satisfy our curiousity!

-----------------From Robe-------------------------

We are not only after skimmate quantity but after the effectiveness. If they skim the same tank but one drops out after some time and can no longer skim anything while another is still left behind producing skimmate so who's the better skimmer? Simple judging. As you say no BS!

[LinkinPark]

Skimmer can't be tested immediately once they are plugged in. They have to be tuned carefully over weeks if not months. Drawing on research experience in experiment design. I would have to suggest that the skimmers be tested on identical but individual set ups.

1) Perhaps hooked up to a 4' tank or tub each and carefully tuned to optimum.

2) Change out the water and clean the tub.

3) Equal volumes or weight of homogenised skimmate collected from all over Singapore be place into the tank.

4) At set intervals, hours or minutes depending on performance. Skimmate collected from skimmers, quantified or at least scored. I would suggest dry weight of skimmate as a good indicator.

This will provide a more accurate comparison.

Hi Tanzy

Could this be overcome by running & tuning the skimmers for 1 week (by the respective individual) before the competition.

Then bring them all to a neutral ground & fire up.

I am willing to sponsor coffee voucher for the winner

[Tanzy]

The skimming parameters change when brought to a different setup due to changes in water level and head pressure. The skimmer must be hooked up to the test setup then tuned appropriately.

The most important test will be how much skimmate is produced over a period of time. The dry weight is important because it may be skimming water.

Suction and air flow is not a good measure of a skimmer because I can tune a skimmer to give huge bubbles that use a lot of air but don't skim very well. There has to be an optimum. Based on airflow, becketts will definitely win because the higher the flow rate the more air is sucked in. All you need is a big MD100 that overwhelms the thing!

If the experiment is done properly, it can be published.

Thanks for the coffee voucher! Maybe we can get more people to loan out skimmers and provide man power.

[Achilles Tang]

I think the proposed 'tuning' for a week is just for 'breaking in' purposes as new skimmers will have a layer of oils or chemicals on the inner walls and that will take some time to be removed.

Agreed, It is pointless to tune it somewhere else and then bring it to the testing tank and run it there to tune again.

But the fact that we have to wash the skimmers to create a level starting ground means that all the effort to tune it properly will be moot.

(Unless you are saying we do not touch the air intake valves?)

How do we define dry skimmate? How do we scrape out the skimmate to weigh? Do we leave it to dry out before weighing?

Hmmmm... interesting questions to ponder.

[Tanzy]

Dry weight is easy. Collect skimmate, dry under sun or oven at 40°C then weigh.

[victorp]

Dry weight is easy. Collect skimmate, dry under sun or oven at 40°C then weigh.

Oven?! Just don't let your mother, girlfriend, or wife catch you baking or grilling "shit" in the kitchen oven. My...the pungent aroma...