Zeovit system. Anyone using?

[alanseah]

Me abit blur...

Max u mention about need to feed the coral daily.. but will bring up N03 and PO4...

issue this going to only make the sps brown..??

as mention zero bioload will really help sps color up..???

[Maxima]

2 more things to add.

I do no believe in a refugium. If the refugium can survive, there will be nutirent. SPS environment in the wild is totally different from a nutrient rich algae shoreline. So if your refugium is doing well and think this is great for your SPS main tank- should you be happy?

BTW, Rowa is not Deltec and I've nothing to do with Rowa. BTW it is distributed by Patrick.

Max

[Maxima]

Me abit blur...

Max u mention about need to feed the coral daily.. but will bring up N03 and PO4...

issue this going to only make the sps brown..??

as mention zero bioload will really help sps color up..???

Alan my friend, these are basics

Nutrients are what in the water and feedings is what te corals eat.

Left over how?

You have to get rid of it, else it turn into nutrients.

Max

[alanseah]

Alan my friend, these are basics

Nutrients are what in the water and feedings is what te corals eat.

Left over how?

You have to get rid of it, else it turn into nutrients.

Max

o ok.. u got get rid of it la...

cause your very word make me wondering ma...

ok at least i now know what u talking about...

[Maxima]

Last to add, no matter what method we use, I show respect to reefers who are commited and can bring out the colors of their SPS. Everyone is MASTER of HIS own Applications.

[alanseah]

2 more things to add.

I do no believe in a refugium. If the refugium can survive, there will be nutirent. SPS environment in the wild is totally different from a nutrient rich algae shoreline. So if your refugium is doing well and think this is great for your SPS main tank- should you be happy?

BTW, Rowa is not Deltec and I've nothing to do with Rowa. BTW it is distributed by Patrick.

Max

lolz..

same here.. I also totally dont believe in refugium.... I dont find it help but will make your tank crash somemore if anything go wrong..

my sump is totally empty expect pump and skimmer...

and of coz some sand and a few piece of small rock that I left it there as I have enough of sand and rock in my main tank...

[roidan]

hmm..but i always thought a refugium will help strip the water of remaining nutrients/wastes that the skimming process could not capture

but then again, i know nothing about sps

[Achilles Tang]

_______________________________________________________________

Simply, how this system works is that is makes the water so starved of ammonia, nitrites, nitrates & other nutrients that the SPS corals have no way of absorbing nutrients from the water and brown up as a consequence of zooxanthellea overgrowth but now has to rely totally on light... and thus develop the colourful UV pigments when there is good lighting and to prevent possible oversaturation that causes bleaching.

AT

________________________________________________________________

Totally wrong

SPS cannot produce enough food thru light using photosynthesis since not enough nutrient to go along. You need nutirent + light for photosynthesis -have you forgot your basic secondary lesson?   BTW the recent findings is that high desity zoos are brown and low desnity zoos can be colored- I think you have beed too busy to read up?

Max... yeah... I need to go back to secondary school... maybe even kindergarten.

I shouldn't have used the word 'totally' as it implied the need to stop feeding... oops. Anyway... its 'simply put' and I dun have much time to elaborate. My bad.

Don't know what context you made this statement from, but you have to remember this is in reference to the Zeovit system which makes the water a lot less 'polluted with some nutrients which may cause overproduction of zoox and thus make SPS corals browner'.

SPS cannot produce enough food thru light using photosynthesis since not enough nutrient to go along. You need nutirent + light for photosynthesis -have you forgot your basic secondary lesson?

Yeah I know that very well... I advocate feeding of SPS corals in SRC all long, havent I?

But as AT mentioned, u do not necessary need to use Zeovit, since if you are capable of maintain a perfect low nutrient thru

1. Refugium

2  DSB

3  Skimmer

As you said it yourself... the Zeovit system helps to maintain a low nutrient environment. ie. what for... so that the SPS corals don't get affected by high nutrients to turn brown.

1. Thomas Pohl advise to use amino acids daily and vitamins as well. This is controlled dosing and feedings and the right combination will result in the color-up of SPS, since the SPS do not need to depend on light for food. The color of SPS will lighten up as such. AND these lighten coloration is a reduction in zoos density, but still useful in producing food at a lower rate. The UV-a, UV-b & UV-c of the MH or T5 will give a coloring cast on the SPS resulting in the fluo-colorations.

Yeah, yeah... I have never implied that feedings are unnecessary in this thread. The Germans use a lot of liquid amino acids/additives vs the Americans theory of zooplankton feeding being better.

The way I see it... and I don't think I have deviated from my statement... is that the Zeovit system is supposed to:

1. Make the environment very low in nutrients.

2. Make the SPS rely on light + amino acids for supplementary energy.

For Zeovit user, why bleaching?

Several facts

1. too low nutrient so not enough for food for corals

2. Total loss of zoos since no nutrient, liht is useless, so zoos in corals will be wasted away, resulting in bleaching.

You forgot that bleaching is a stress response also (I am not going to insult you by asking you to go back to school). Heat and too much light intensity also causes corals to bleach. Put a goniopora that is found in turbid waters and place it right up to the surf level where the SPS are and see what happens when it gets too much light!

[bawater]

but

Refugium & Algae Scrubber is mixed up.

One is a refuge for organisms to reproduce in peace while the other is purely for nutrient export.

A refugium has little export capabilities in nutrient uptake. (it does but very small). You can't expect zero NO3 from adding a 1ft refugium to a 4ft/5ft/6ft tank, especially if original levels are in excess of 20ppm. & a lot of ppl like to use algae that go sexual..& release everything back into the system.

its like comparing apples & watermelon.

[roidan]

oh yeah..slight mixed up..

but that means algae scrubber tends to be a refugium as well,

but refugium may not be a good algae scrubber if too little suitable macroalgae are used and the size is too small in proportion to the tank size?

[Creetin]

this is really interesting reading! i must say that this is wat the forum does best, giving us info (from e experts) that we can read up and learn from. keep it up guys!

[bawater]

but that means algae scrubber tends to be a refugium as well,

yup, but u grow algae on a mesh which u scrape/harvest often...along with whatever is growing there. i think ATS(algae turf scrubbers) are rarely used nowadays.

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[bawater]

found my answer. its somewhere in the first link chanbi posted.

>>>>

"How zeovit work,originaly posted by G.Alexander

"

It contains 4 essentials:

1. Zeolite

2. Bacteria

3. Bacteria food

4. Active Carbon

The filter material contains a mix of four different zeolite – each one with different attributes. It is be run in a filter with a flow rat of about 2000 liters per hour. 1 Liter is used for 400 liters. This material has to by changed every 8 – 10 weeks.

The bacteria help to reduce nutrients and are absorbed by the SPS. The bacteria and the food are only given in the first 14 days after adding new zeolite. The bacteria food helps to increase the bacteria and is absorbed by the SPS too. The food contains many elements. The given quantity of bacteria is 1 – 2 drops per 100 liters – bacteria food by 1 – 2 drops per 200 liters.

In addition 1 liter of a high class activated carbon is ran in the filter bypass with a quantity of 1 liter per 1000 liters. The carbon has to be changed every 4 weeks.

Trace elements – Iodine – Strontium is given by 2 – 5 % from the recommended quantity. Dosing these elements is different in every tank running this method and you have to become a feeling for the given quantity. All these elements boost the addition of zooxanthallae so be careful with the quantity to keep the SPS tissue light and the colors bright.

If you run the tank with low nutrient levels it is necessary to bring other parameters in the right ratio. What I mean is that the measurable parameters should by run in the following examples:

Calcium 380 – 400 mg

Magnesium 1300 – 1350 mg

KH 6 – 7

I only can advice you not to take any zeolite. Many people I know did this mistake and they have lost all their SPS because the used material had other attributes than the mixture of the zeovit method.

This time there are nearly 1200 different zeolith with different attributes so it is not simple to find the right material without killing the SPS."<<<<<<

[Achilles Tang]

Calcium 380 – 400 mg

Magnesium 1300 – 1350 mg

KH 6 – 7

These are the NSW levels the Germans practice... vs the high calcium, high dKH levels that the Americans recommend.

Interesting again the different schools of thought.

[Creetin]

i was wondering, y cant this zeo stuff be used like rowaphos or some filter media - chucked into a bag - into e sump or canister?

[Achilles Tang]

The recommended container to hold this Zeovit is something like a reactor.

This is a system where you are supposed to follow the instructions.... well... for maybe as long as 9 months to see good results or as short as a few months?

[Achilles Tang]

Hi Max! Got some questions on some of your statements.. hope you don't mind enlightening me as I am blurred by some of them.

I think all experience SPS reefers know that daily feeding of SPS cause more problems than having several fish in a tank -provide yu don't over feed yr fish?

I highly doubt the amount of food to feed SPS on a daily basis can rival the amount of food fed to fishes, gram for gram. IMO, on a pollution scale, a 10ml of rotifers fed to SPS will not produce as much No3 & P04 problems as 20gms of frozen shrimp, flake, pellet or nori fed to fishes, of course this is just an example.

Logically, a reef tank is quite nutrient free in terms of ample zooplankton for SPS to feed on like in the wild and I doubt if we pour in more than a few tablespoons full of live rotifers, or GPs or frozen zooplankton on a daily basis but we certainly do feed more than a few grams of fish food to feed our fishes, and not just once a day!

If this fish food remains uneaten, it will definitely cause problems when they rot but even if they are eaten and digested, what goes in must come out and you still get No3 and P04....

So since we are debating on how to accomplish a nutrient-free environment via the Zeovit system and the demerits of a DSB system and the merits of a berlin system (which you say give you 0 levels of NO3 and P04)... I hope you can share how you achieve it...

So... when you said..

First - I don't use denitrator.

Neither do most of us. So nitrates must be removed via NNR in the LR? Mechanically skimmed out quickly? Frequent water changes? Use of nitrate-reducing solutions?

Second - I don't use tons of Rowaphos - last me mths per use

Yeah, with the very minimal fishload you have (like 3 or 4 fish in your tank I believe) and the very little feeding you do, that's not surprising. But for the majority of us, our P04 levels will definitely be much higher as we stock up a lot more than you do.

Third - Rowaphos can last much longer than Contraphos - already reviewed & tested on a European website

Agreed for the mixed product Rowaphos (500ml) as tested for myself. Not for Contraphos Konzentrate as it is the SAME as Rowaphos. Read here!

Fourth - good T5 reflector is the key - forget about china made T5 and your neighhood DIY - unless a DIY using SiO2 material + computerized reflector cutting and bending.

That's goes without saying. But what has it got to do with water quality that we are discussing? Or is this in relation to the Zeovit system that you're saying that only T5s work with it but MH can't? Errr.... can you elaborate?

Fifth-  the tricks lah

So let's hear it for your bag of tricks... we are curious to learn about your quoted tricks to to keep PO4 & NO3 down in a Berlin style system and your trick or two with T5. At least for the benefit of the newbies here, coz isn't knowledge sharing one of the key points of SRC?

Thanks Max!!

[Maxima]

Max... yeah... I need to go back to secondary school... maybe even kindergarten.

I shouldn't have used the word 'totally' as it implied the need to stop feeding... oops. Anyway... its 'simply put' and I dun have much time to elaborate. My bad.

Don't know what context you made this statement from, but you have to remember this is in reference to the Zeovit system which makes the water a lot less 'polluted with some nutrients which may cause overproduction of zoox and thus make SPS corals browner'.

Yeah I know that very well... I advocate feeding of SPS corals in SRC all long, havent I?

As you said it yourself... the Zeovit system helps to maintain a low nutrient environment. ie. what for... so that the SPS corals don't get affected by high nutrients to turn brown.

Yeah, yeah... I have never implied that feedings are unnecessary in this thread. The Germans use a lot of liquid amino acids/additives vs the Americans theory of zooplankton feeding being better.

The way I see it... and I don't think I have deviated from my statement... is that the Zeovit system is supposed to:

1. Make the environment very low in nutrients.

2. Make the SPS rely on light + amino acids for supplementary energy.

You forgot that bleaching is a stress response also (I am not going to insult you by asking you to go back to school). Heat and too much light intensity also causes corals to bleach. Put a goniopora that is found in turbid waters and place it right up to the surf level where the SPS are and see what happens when it gets too much light!

Actually my commends all along refer to Thomas Pohl Zeovit Method vs whatever. If you ever go to his website, he did not specific anything???

Any seasoned SPS reefer can easily understand the logic below the system. I ws petty surprise the folks in RC seems to be "NOT SO KNOWLEDGABLE" as to how exactly this system work

Zeovit only tell you to follow instructions, it means step by step instructions.

SO what do reefers learn from his method? NOTHING !

I guess as a responsible reefer & businessman or so call expert in this field, he has the right to explain how his method works.......but then........once you understand the logic behind, you can use your own method base on our own application knowledge to map to such system parameters.

The world of SPS is not just Beckett Skimmer, DSB, refugium or Zeovit, there's definitely more than that

Max

[Maxima]

These are the NSW levels the Germans practice... vs the high calcium, high dKH levels that the Americans recommend.

Interesting again the different schools of thought.

Beside these lower parameters, the germans uses less wattage of light than the American, but still produce more colorful SPS corals. The less wattage of light to produce more colorful SPS is what I've tried for some.......long to attain.

Max

[FuEl]

Ah...why my tank setup sounds german....

[Achilles Tang]

Uhmm ok, Max.

If that's all you can elaborate.... really would have liked to learn a little more. Nitrates and Phosphates can already be hard to manage in a DSB system, not to mention a Berlin system... I am sure a lot can learn from your expertise/experience.

[weisoon]

Vodka recipe for Max?

[Maxima]

A hint: something you need to spend time to culture..........

Max

[nutx]

A hint: something you need to spend time to culture..........

Max

interesting thread to read.....suggest AT pin this thread up.....

the discussion here save me a lot of 'blind' searching. It make my follow-up search in the web much easier...

(but again..it became a guessing thread... )

[Achilles Tang]

I am guessing.... live phytoplankton to use up the nitrates/phosphates in a Berlin tank?? doesn't make sense coz there will be very low density and the common strains that are easily cultured don't really like full=strength seawater/seawater with the common parameters we are used to keeping.

Common Max... don't hold out on us... tell us your 'tricks!'