Disciplining Kids?

[riot]

Wow!!! How this thread has evolved?

Heh heh heh I am a sociologist at heart so I also go to the root of the matter- blame society .

But really, you cant whack a kid without understanding where he's coming from. I mean, if you were in his shoes, what would you do? I have seen terror seminars invovling the worst students in the world... teachers!!! Man, they are a nightmare. Handphones smsing (oops thats me), questioning every little itsy bitsy thing the trainer does.

But really, teaching is great fun. Its a job i see myself doing for many more years. But as I get more "senior" in the job, I feel that the magic that the younger teachers. the idealism is sort of diluted with mad sarcasm. I have this expat on the team, and he promised himself that the day he dreads going to school and finds no pleasure in teaching, he's gonna quit. Thats the attitude I like, and thats the attitude the mgmt gotta take. Its not a job you punch in at nine and clock off at five.... hey I forget myself.. whats this thread about ?

[flubberina13]

you are forgiven...

that's why I am going back to my counselling roots after getting the equipping skills that education service has offered and when I deem I have returned its favour...throwing in the towel as and when I deem fit...

It's just the SVO part that I am still eyeing and not ready yet that is giving me second thoughts...

[Chris]

he promised himself that the day he dreads going to school and finds no pleasure in teaching, he's gonna quit.

That's what I have been operating from since day 1.

Pardon me but as a philo person at heart, I just can't be satisfied till I get to the fundamentals.

I'm still adament that people need to be guide back to look at motive of action rather than action per se or consequences of action.

Action: Principal slapped student with soft book

Consequences: None in this case (in terms of injury)

Motive: To guide the student back to correct ways

Why the constant debate on right or wrong of him? If we look at the motive of his action, then its pretty clear.

I think in this case the positive motive is strong enough to offset the negative action.

Reprimand him for choosing a wrong course of action but praise him for carrying out his good motives. Sad to say, mistakes stick out more than credits.

Just so sway......30 years of hardwork not even equal to one mistake of protocol.

[flubberina13]

Let's start a club and bring in educators of the same school of thoughts?

As the more people we have, the more significant it will be if each of us play our part in pursuing the same dream...

[nutx]

"will any parent accept that his/ her child is destinied to be a technician?"

I think this is the general mis-conception of singaporean.

To be branded as success, you must be a doctor, lawywer, .....it is no longer a fireman, police, nurse, or teacher, etc.....

However, if you look at the S'pore Listed Company today, how many of the owners are actually a graduate from the former education?

many are technician background, with self-learning along the way.

The stress and pressure of our education comes from the parents, not exactly from the system. And I felt that the system (for dunno what reason), is trying to catchup with the pressure from parent.

[Tanzy]

nutx,

But those are just a tiny percentage of people with technical qualification. Those few who make it are lucky but the majority aren't so fortunate. Compare that to the percentage of graduates who are in the middle class and upper middle, I'll rather my kids be a graduate.

[Chris]

Luck is an entity not in our control. The crux of the discussion turns back to not parents' aspiration of their kids but society's perception or value on people with different ability.

The fundamental problem with the society is why should respect and recognition of contribution to the society be measured to being middle class or holding certain jobs. The very definition of class is by itself a manifestation of discrimination.

The day we see different class strata and value each as serving a purpose instead of lining them from base to top, will see harmony.

I don't think graduate are more superior than others. They just better in some areas while others are better in other areas. It's just so the society value their spectrum of knowledge more.

[riot]

I agree with Chris but the issue is that not many Singaporeans feel the same way. Your "value" in society is dependent on the material wealth you possess. You need the indicators of success- a luxury car, designer threads, district 10 home, a posh watch. The weight and respect you receive is directly dependent on this.

I think that this is a syndrome of city living- being in a cosmopolitan environment, where you meet strangers on a daily basis, there is no time or prior knowledge to fall back on regarding their character and status. Physical indicators of their social positions are hence required. In the process, the lines between "representing" social worth & "actual" worth is blurred, till the point you need certain possesions indicating you have arrived to inform people that you are socially valuable. The actual work or contribution you give is moot.

Now once you have arrived that the main difficulties invovled in disciplining children is dependent on raising respect of teachers in both eyes of kids & adults, but to do so you have to alter the social perceptions of "worth", You end up talking about changing the fundamental beliefs of 3 million SIngaporeans- thats a tough job.

[Chris]

Totally agree with you riot. That is why I found it amusing that people are not looking at worth of action but action. Of course, the way the media used it to manipulate viewers did not help.

It is indeed a mammoth task to change 3 million minds. That makes education so much more important. If we make 10% of the next generation see things from this perspective and hope that this 10% continue that mission, we may just achieve it in 10 generations.

[Tanzy]

Chris, you are an idealist.

[KingFish]

Don't mind Tanz, he's been at it for a while.

For all its worth, I sit on the fence with this one.

I give them one chance to understand what they have done wrong, after that I go for where it hurts most ... more psychological than physical, not the nuts

[Tanzy]

I give them one chance to understand what they have done wrong, after that I go for where it hurts most ... more psychological than physical, not the nuts

What if they don't have nuts?

[Siput]

Don't mind Tanz, he's been at it for a while.

For all its worth, I sit on the fence with this one.

I give them one chance to understand what they have done wrong, after that I go for where it hurts most ... more psychological than physical, not the nuts

Never play psychological games with children...more dangerous than outright punishment, which I voted for. However, I must qualify that "punishment" can mean either physical punishment, like a smack, or removal of rights, eg no tv for a while, or "detention", eg sit in corner. What is impt is that u must take the time to explain why the child is being pusnished and what kind of behaviour is expected...or else it is just your temper getting the better of you...just me $0.02 worth...

[flubberina13]

no tv for a while, or "detention", eg sit in corner.

This is a strategy called Time-Out...

[Tanzy]

Time for a quote.

[flubberina13]

Tanzy...I like the smirk on your gal's face and the expression in the "I understand your tragedy' pic...cool...

[KingFish]

Oh yes they do ... as a matter of fact, she tells you exactly how many ...

[Siput]

This is a strategy called Time-Out...

I KNEW there was a term for it!!!

Yup, just forgot in the heat of the moment...tip o' the tongue an' all that...

[KingFish]

Siput, that sounds psychological to me

As a matter of fact, almost every punishment you dish out is pretty much so.

Try dealing with adults, much worse ....

[Tanzy]

Rumor,

Do not abuse Charmy's pictures!

Yes, try dealing with adults.

[Siput]

Siput, that sounds psychological to me

As a matter of fact, almost every punishment you dish out is pretty much so.

Try dealing with adults, much worse ....

Rumor, physcholigical games include things like, if u don't do this/are naughty, then mummy and daddy don't love u anymore; or, other kids/so-and-so is so much better than you; or you are very stupid (no explanation given), the list goes on...

Essentially u want to nurture and educate, and not play mind games; set the rules by all means and set the terms by which the child must operate, but make it clear and do not go over the top...

[KingFish]

Done ...

[KingFish]

Rumor, physcholigical games include things like, if u don't do this/are naughty, then mummy and daddy don't love u anymore; or, other kids/so-and-so is so much better than you; or you are very stupid (no explanation given), the list goes on...

I'd classify that, at best, bad execution amidst the best intention.

Real mind games get the kids (even adults) thinking instead of wondering.

Essentially u want to nurture and educate, and not play mind games; set the rules by all means and set the terms by which the child must operate, but make it clear and do not go over the top...

Setting boundaries seem like a good practice, I'd give you that.

But setting a wrong benchmark is worst than none at all.

[Siput]

Seems like we are on the same track, then bro; mebbe placed too much emphasis on your earlier psychological reference...

[KingFish]

I'm only inferring from normal human behaviour for my deductions.

I don't let small stuff bother me, they are only small stuff

Delve too much into it, one tend to get caught up in the details and lose focus.