Mod on Atman CS-400CIRV Chiller

[Cedric]

And proceeded to mod the internal. This will be much more complicated then the mod I did on bro lighteningstrike and Eric. A pic of the internals semi-completed.

[Cedric]

A close up of the wiring near the power inlet

[Cedric]

Finally, after 4 hours of hard work, its completed!!! Note the extra wire coming out of the chiller, thats going to the external controller mounted on my electrical cabinet on the other side of the tank.

[ervine]

Great job... will this work on other chillers too?

[Cedric]

Yes it should work for all chillers. Perhaps just different wiring, got the study the wiring diagram first!

[Maxima]

Hi Cedric,

I just found out the Atman & Arctica compressor model & specification:

Atman YB645 0.23 700/835 600/720 2,380/2,860 R/V/G 4.8

The BTU is 2860(max)

1HP = 12,000BTU so the compressor is slightly less than 1/4HP => actual 0.24HP or minimum running rate is at 1/5HP = 0.20HP

Compressor Power useage is 230W running at 2380BTU & 300W running at 2860BTU.

As for Arctica

1/4 HP chiller => compressor power is 220W @ 3000BTU ouput

1/3 HP chiller => compressor power is 250W @ 4000BTU output.

1/2 HP chiller => compressor power is 400W @ 6800BTU output

Infact the Atman is slightly less than 1/4HP (only 1/5HP to .24HP). But plse note the above power is solely compressor only. The overall power rating for the chiller will be different.

I must say the Compressor Atman use is a top grade compressor , I think it far exceed a lot of other branded chiller name.

Max

[Maxima]

Miss out the actual Mitsubushi 1/2HP compressor

Data as follows,

KB134 0.45 1,545/1,855 1,325/1,580 5,270/6,330 V/G/T 9.2

Power for compressor only is 450W

Max

[Cedric]

Apologies to Calciumreef! I kept thinking that it was him who made the comment!!!! Also dunno why? Sorry bro!

To Cookiemunster, what do you think?

[ervine]

Eh... can summarise what does this all mean? more efficient?

[Cedric]

Eh... can summarise what does this all mean? more efficient?

What happened is this:

Atman Chiller's Controller is too senstive, cutting in and out as often as every 6 minutes. 3 minutes on, 3 minutes off. This may/will result in shorthen lifespan of the compressor.

Orginal Solution was to completely bypass the orginal controller with a new external one. While this solves the problem of cutting in and out too frequently, it created a small potential problem. Since the temperature is now sensed from the new controller's probe in the main tank, if for whatever reason the chiller pump or return pump fails, the temp will read high, chiller continues running but the water in the reservoir is stagnant and may freeze as a result.

New Solution is to run two controllers together, solving the problem entirely. But this is alot harder to diy.

Hope you can understand better.

[ervine]

actually I meant what maxima was saying

[Cookiemunster]

Hi everyone again!

Calciumreef made a valid point previously about the water reservoir freezing up since the external probe will sense a high temp while in the main tank even when the chiller pump fails.

This has set me thinking quite abit.

Finally, I came up with a rather simple solution!

I'll use two controllers together! The orginal atman controller will be set at a lower temp say 24 degrees with the temperature probe in the reservoir. The new external FOX temperature controller will be wired in series and set at a higher temp of 25 degrees.

For the chiller to run, both controllers must be triggered on. So lets say when the temp has lowered from 26 degrees to 25 degrees, the FOX external controller will turn the relay off while the atman controller will remain on. Net effect, the chiller remains off!

If the worse case brought up by calciumreef happens, i.e. chiller pump or return pump fails, the FOX controller will sense a high temp and remain on. But the atman internal controller will sense a low temp in the reservoir and turn off the chiller at the preset 24 degrees!!!

Finally problem is solved! With that in mind, I decided to mod my own chiller!!!

Cedric why you so blur one. I was the one who said the problem about freezing when pump failed. Go to page 1 and look at my post again. I see you are obsessed with calciumreef. hahahaha

Anyway the solution is simple as you mentioned. Wire two in series.

But do not set the chiller's own thermostat so near to the set temperature of the tank.

When the pump fails, the chiller temp will quickly lower to elss than 20 very fast. So in order for this method to work properly, set the chiller to about 18 or 20. And the thermostat in the tank at 25 or what ever temp you wish.

With the large temp difference between the 2 thermostats, errors will be greatly reduced.

By the way PACIFIC COO is providing such modifications and servicing for other chillers such as this too.

Cheers and feel free to pm me if you need any help.

[Cedric]

Its ok Cookiemunster, its alot more fun and alot cheaper to do the diy myself. In any case, I've already successfully completed the modification.

[BarraCudaTM]

Eh... can summarise what does this all mean? more efficient?

Now for some cost effectiveness calculation.

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 12hrs/day..

Artica -

2.8A X 220V = 616watts

(616watts x 6hrs x 30 days)/1000 = 110.88kWh

110.88kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $16.72/month

Atman

(320watts x 12hrs x 30 days)/1000 =115.2kWh

115.2kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $17.37/month

Difference in running cost

$17.37 - $16.72 = $0.65 savings/month.

Cost of chiller

Atman = $600

Artica = $1700

Difference in chiller cost

$1700 - $600 = $1100

Break even period

$1100 / $0.65/month = 1692 months = 141years!

__________________________________________________________

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 24hrs/day..

Atman running cost

$17.37 X 2 = $34.74/month

Difference in running cost

$34.74 - 16.72 = $18.02/month

Break even period

$1100 / $18.02/month = 61months = 5years!

Basically it means that you will need at least 5yrs to recover the cost on the purchase of the artica chiller VS its operating efficiency. (On the assumption that the Atman chiller is very inefficient (running non stop for 5years)

[Cookiemunster]

Now for some cost effectiveness calculation.

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 12hrs/day..

Artica -

2.8A X 220V = 616watts

(616watts x 6hrs x 30 days)/1000 = 110.88kWh

110.88kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $16.72/month

Atman

(320watts x 12hrs x 30 days)/1000 =115.2kWh

115.2kWh x $0.1508/kWh = $17.37/month

Difference in running cost

$17.37 - $16.72 = $0.65 savings/month.

Cost of chiller

Atman = $600

Artica = $1700

Difference in chiller cost

$1700 - $600 = $1100

Break even period

$1100 / $0.65/month = 1692 months = 141years!

__________________________________________________________

Assuming artica chiller runs 6hrs/day and atman 24hrs/day..

Atman running cost

$17.37 X 2 = $34.74/month

Difference in running cost

$34.74 - 16.72 = $18.02/month

Break even period

$1100 / $18.02/month = 61months = 5years!

Basically it means that you will need at least 5yrs to recover the cost on the purchase of the artica chiller VS its operating efficiency. (On the assumption that the Atman chiller is very inefficient (running non stop for 5years)

Bro,

no offense but I think it isn't fair to compare like this. Cost is one thing. But effectiveness of cooling is the most important point.

Of course, it should be at a price thats reasonable and affordable to the individual. But if I really wanted to save money, I wouldn't buy a chiller and instead just use alot of IONA fans.

Many people buy chillers with cost and pricing in mind but they often forget why they buy a chiller in the first place.....ie to cool the tank to a required temp. (usually 25 degrees)

For small tanks of 3ft and below, a small cheap chiller would be enough but for bigger tanks, I really doubt it.

A chiller being able to cool to required temp is also not enough. It has to be a balance of noise level and running time too. (often both are related....imagine something noisy running for so many hrs.) Many would rather pay more than endure such incidents.

I feel that something that needs to be modified for it to work as promised is not fulfilling its purpose as a product. Modification should be to improve it to a higher standard but not to just make it work. (thats better known as repair).

Having said this, I feel many people buy chillers based on a few points:

1) Cost,

2) Efficiency and effectiveness of cooling

3) Noise level

So it needs to be a balance. To me, cost is definitely a concern before I buy anything. Next is whether it will work as promised. Otherwise I wouldn't buy it in the first place no matter how cheap it is.

Please do not feel offended by my comments as I am just sharing my views too.

By the way, I am not promoting artica chillers. hahaha I am selling pacific coo. Everyone has different needs and should base your choice on your own tank size and budget.

Cheers

[Cedric]

Having said this, I feel many people buy chillers based on a few points:

1) Cost,

2) Efficiency and effectiveness of cooling

3) Noise level

Hi,

just like to share my view points. I too was debating over Pacific Coo or an Atman and other brands, so based on the three points brought up by Cookiemunster, maybe I can do some comparison.

1. Cost:

Atman before mod = $500

Atman after mod = $600 (including cost of new materials and DIYing myself, hence no labour cost)

2. Efficiency:

Atman - Excellent with a good rotary compressor but not a true rating of 0.5HP as brought up by Maxima.

Compact and Small in size.

Small titanium Coil

Good for 4 feet with my limited experience

3. Noise Level

Atman - Excellent, near silent

Therefore based on the above (just my personal opinion) I could not bring myself to come up with more than 2x the money for other brands. Hence I guess I bought the Atman primarily based on the price point which is near impossible to beat for most of the chillers available now.

[Cookiemunster]

Hi,

just like to share my view points. I too was debating over Pacific Coo or an Atman and other brands, so based on the three points brought up by Cookiemunster, maybe I can do some comparison.

1. Cost:

Atman before mod = $500

Atman after mod = $600 (including cost of new materials and DIYing myself, hence no labour cost)

2. Efficiency:

Atman - Excellent with a good rotary compressor but not a true rating of 0.5HP as brought up by Maxima.

Compact and Small in size.

Small titanium Coil

Good for 4 feet with my limited experience

3. Noise Level

Atman - Excellent, near silent

Therefore based on the above (just my personal opinion) I could not bring myself to come up with more than 2x the money for other brands. Hence I guess I bought the Atman primarily based on the price point which is near impossible to beat for most of the chillers available now.

Cedric I do not understand why you insist that other chiller brands are using piston compressors. Perhaps you are right and the compressor maker's specs are wrong because from what I understand, piston compressors are way too big for normal chiller applications. All small to medium compressors are using rotary compressors.....no big deal.

But I am happy for you that you are happy your chiller works for your needs. As I mentioned, its an individual selection and if you can be sure you paid for what you get then, well good for you and your wallet.

Cheers

[Cedric]

Cedric I do not understand why you insist that other chiller brands are using piston compressors. Perhaps you are right and the compressor maker's specs are wrong because from what I understand, piston compressors are way too big for normal chiller applications.

Hi Cookiemunster,

perhaps its the way I wrote my post which misled you into thinking that I am insisting most other brands use piston compressors. Apologies for that.

However, I must add that there are indeed quite a few chiller brands that do indeed use piston compressors such as TECO , TR, RR, and even Pacific Coo. In any case, piston compressors are not really that big!

A dead give away to tell if the compressor in use is indeed a rotary compressor is the physical shape. A rotary compressor is almost always cylindrical and tall. A piston compressor is much like a dome shape.

There is nothing wrong wrong with a piston compressor, just that a rotary compressor is a newer technology and more efficient, thats all.

[Maxima]

So the theory is this

A,, B, C & D each earn $200K a year

A drives a Mercedes

B drives a Toyota

C drives a small motorcycle

D does not drive as he finds it too expensive!

So........................... ............it it individual preferences.

Max

[Cedric]

So the theory is this

A,, B, C & D each earn $200K a year

A drives a Mercedes

B drives a Toyota

C drives a small motorcycle

D does not drive as he finds it too expensive!

So........................... ............it is individual preferences.

Max

I fully agree!

[Maxima]

Hi Cookiemunster,

perhaps its the way I wrote my post which misled you into thinking that I am insisting most other brands use piston compressors. Apologies for that.

However, I must add that there are indeed quite a few chiller brands that do indeed use piston compressors such as TECO , TR, RR, and even Pacific Coo. In any case, piston compressors are not really that big!

A dead give away to tell if the compressor in use is indeed a rotary compressor is the physical shape. A rotary compressor is almost always cylindrical and tall. A piston compressor is much like a dome shape.

There is nothing wrong wrong with a piston compressor, just that a rotary compressor is a newer technology and more efficient, thats all.

You are the man ....RIGHT ON

Technology differences....most important no matter what you buy, it must work -> Bottomline.

Max

[BarraCudaTM]

Bro,

no offense but I think it isn't fair to compare like this. Cost is one thing. But effectiveness of cooling is the most important point.

Of course, it should be at a price thats reasonable and affordable to the individual. But if I really wanted to save money, I wouldn't buy a chiller and instead just use alot of IONA fans.

Many people buy chillers with cost and pricing in mind but they often forget why they buy a chiller in the first place.....ie to cool the tank to a required temp. (usually 25 degrees)

For small tanks of 3ft and below, a small cheap chiller would be enough but for bigger tanks, I really doubt it.

A chiller being able to cool to required temp is also not enough. It has to be a balance of noise level and running time too. (often both are related....imagine something noisy running for so many hrs.) Many would rather pay more than endure such incidents.

I feel that something that needs to be modified for it to work as promised is not fulfilling its purpose as a product. Modification should be to improve it to a higher standard but not to just make it work. (thats better known as repair).

Having said this, I feel many people buy chillers based on a few points:

1) Cost,

2) Efficiency and effectiveness of cooling

3) Noise level

So it needs to be a balance. To me, cost is definitely a concern before I buy anything. Next is whether it will work as promised. Otherwise I wouldn't buy it in the first place no matter how cheap it is.

Please do not feel offended by my comments as I am just sharing my views too.

By the way, I am not promoting artica chillers. hahaha I am selling pacific coo. Everyone has different needs and should base your choice on your own tank size and budget.

Cheers

Yes, I agree if you have a really high heat load, you will need the cooling power of artica chillers. Atman chiller should be able to chill up to 200g with 500watts MH + 130watts pump (my current setup).

Most of us should have heat load below or same as mine except for SPS reefers. The reason why I raised this matter is because most of the reefers look at HP ratings and not the wattage.

It might give others false feeling on electrical consumption. E.g 1/2HP artica can chill much better than 1/2HP atman, this will lead to assumption that the 1/2HP artica is more energy efficient and will save them more $ as they run for shorter periods. If you looked at my calculations, you will see that its not necessary true considering the cost price of the chiller unit.

HP/cooling power scale is non-linear. It doesnt mean that when you have twice the HP rating, you will be able to chill twice as fast.

Toyota, mercedes, bmw will eventually bring you to yr destination, its just whether if you are willing to spend more on the car itself and burn more petrol or travel slower on a smaller car.

Pls note that I'm not trying to create trouble/spoil sales but rather .. trying to create awareness.

[lightningstrike]

this is not a sale thread, bro barracuda....... ur comments r always welcomed.

[Power Blue]

Hi brothers,

Just brought the ATMAN CS-400 since 8 May, Sunday. Had set the temp. till 26.5 deg. C. Understanding about the regular cut in & out problems. Just want to check from you guys about the nosie level. Did anyone from your family complain is nosiy. My is very nosiy, is like a five 4-inches A/C fan running togther. Is there way on cutting down the noise level by apply oil on the fan??? Anyone experience this??? Please help..

[Cedric]

Hi Power Blue,

the Atman noisy? Er . . . Are you sure its coming from the fan? From my observation of my own atman, there are two likely sources of noise.

1) The compressor - as its a rotary compressor, the vibration is actually greater than a normal piston compressor. Check that the three damping screws at the base of the compressor is tightly bolted. However, I believe its not the source.

2) The fan motor - the atman uses a cheap motor block of 7 watts. It is likely to die due to wear and tear of the bearings due to poor lubrication. If you want to fix this, you will need to dismantle the motor from the stand, strip the motor apart and apply grease to the bearings inside the motor. Personnally, I prefer to change out the motor block and replace it with a better quality one. I have already bought a new 16 watt motor with relacement blade for standby. Do take note that different motor turns in different direction. The orginal motor turns clockwise (when looking at the blade with the motor behind). My new motor rotates counter clockwise which is why I need to get new blades.

Hope this helps.