SPS.....

[Phang]

Hey Reefers,

Was comtemplating whether if I should post this up.......

So here it goes....

Due to the fact of the last few threads regarding SPS...... many of us reefers have been given and provided the knowledge of these exclusive or high demand species....

...... which is a good thing ......

However due to a few postings on stocks of such kind appearing in LFS/farms, reefers, especially those who are keen in such specimens are advise to take note of the following...

** Please buy them only when you have the means to upkeep and sustain these specimens..!!!!!! **

Having the means to upkeep does not mean " you think or you feel" that you have it..... it is simply

knowing through checks on your water quality, lightings, having a reef system already running for 9 - 12 months etc before you moved in.... also encompass that you have gathered enough information through reading and learning before jumping into this highly demanding species.......

The practice of " buy first...... learn later, find out later and check later " should not be applied here....

I personally have calls asking about SPS and reefers asking for help with not so good specimens that have RTN...... (the question in my mind at that time was why did they buy them in the first place when you don't know what they are or recognising them as a RTN specimen)

So I say this.......

""Let those reefers with the means to upkeep have a go at these specimens...""

The above mentioned statement might seem a little selfish or might get me flamed but jus allow me to put a little light here....

SPS are pretty demanding specimens, especilly with wild colonies but they can be aclimitize to succeed in reef systems....especially with 1st and 2nd generation frags...... when given time to grow and develop, these wild specimens would adapt to reef conditions more readily and the frags resulting from them would therefore be easier to upkeep..... so when given the right opportunities in the right reefers' tanks would also mean that future generations of reefers or those would upgrade in the future that a chance to have these later generation frags to start up their then ready SPS reefs......

So calling out to all those SPS wannabe reefers, leave these specimens to those are able....(you decide who they are)...... so as to strengthen your own personal chances of having a full fledge SPS reef in the future....

Jus to addon the definitions of the terms mentioned above...

1) Wild colonies..... colonies taken from the wild... heh

2) 1st generation frags ..... frags from wild colonies already establish in a captive system.

3) 2nd generation frags....... frags from 1st generation frags that have growth into colonies....

REMEMBER...... Responsible reefing is what we want here.... not impulse buying.....

BTW, this thread applies to all other species of corals.....

[Achilles Tang]

Lead by example Phang, and the rest will follow!

To all,

I highly recommend getting all the right equipment in place (skimmer, calcium reactor, water circulation, lights, chiller) and testing all the necessary water parameters before buying SPS.

Priorities should be in this order. There will always be stock coming in, so please do not rush to stock up. Why buy expensive and sensitive SPS to put in a less than ideal tank environment, to have them RTN due to lack of ample light, poor water circulation, low calcium, alk, ph levels, in high phosphate and dissolved organics-laden water?

I myself am putting my sps purchasing on hold till I get my new lights in.

So far, my long awaited new skimmer is in and running... and should improve my water quality immediately. Now to wait for the nuisance hair algae to die!

[Phang]

Lead by example Phang, and the rest will follow!

To all,

I highly recommend getting all the right equipment in place (skimmer, calcium reactor, water circulation, lights, chiller) and testing all the necessary water parameters before buying SPS.

Priorities should be in this order. There will always be stock coming in, so please do not rush to stock up. Why buy expensive and sensitive SPS to put in a less than ideal tank environment, to have them RTN due to lack of ample light, poor water circulation, low calcium, alk, ph levels, in high phosphate and dissolved organics-laden water?

I myself am putting my sps purchasing on hold till I get my new lights in.

So far, my long awaited new skimmer is in and running... and should improve my water quality immediately. Now to wait for the nuisance hair algae to die!

Yeah.... working on everything and they are in........ even more confident now of keeping them

so far, all SPS are showing sights of good growth.....

Thanks for your comments...

BTW, how's the 3 SPS you got previously????

[ZeRoC00l]

I maybe a bit but ... just some of my thoughts...

If it's possible for those who already have SPS colonies of 1st or 2nd generations to let go frags of a respectable size to new reefers who want to have a go. Cos this will satisfy both parties:

(1) The Guru reefers are able to get new species of wild frags

(2) The new reefers can try if their tank is ready without burning their pocket

Let go for a small small fee or even free. Cos not all reefers have frags to start trading with. Who knows if suddenly your own colony dies TOUCH WOOD!!! , then you may then need a new frag to restart your colony.

Cos the senario tt i see now is tt ppl all rush to get new specimens and those specimens not taken care of properly dies.... this way both parties losses.. no new specimens for either reefers.

so if both parties can take things easy, let the gurus take care of the new rare species, then let go frags to the newer members. Or get a few reefers to chip in for a new colony, and split it later when it is more stablised.

Peace

[harlequin]

But you can't stop any reefers from buying SPS,especially they are so hard to come by these days.

Money belongs to them and LFS wants to earn their keep.

Agree on the part about getting your tank right in the first place.

[Phang]

But you can't stop any reefers from buying SPS,especially they are so hard to come by these days.

Money belongs to them and LFS wants to earn their keep.

Agree on the part about getting your tank right in the first place.

Hi Harlequin,

Guess you are right that there's no way to stop ppl from buying SPS.... but the question is that if they are unable to keep and sustain them, would only be dumping their money into drains.... <_< ...

I'm not against reefers getting SPS, infact would be really glad if more reefers could get them, cos in the future,there would be more reefers to trade frags with and also promote this rather difficult aspect of reef keeping.... except that without the right systems, things wouldn't be right and the reefers that venture in would lose money .... unless they have lots to spare...

even then, it doesn't sound logical and ethical .....

Remember the aim of this forum is to promote and strengthen local reefkeeping knowldge and abilities .......

Deep down, really wish that there's much more people into SPS keeping.....

[newdamsel]

I guess its rather pointless to have responsible buying addressed to sps as a topic, as like what you said responsible buying is supposed to be practiced across the board not only for sps, but even mushrooms or cauliflower, or leather or fishes and so on. So whats the agenda?

On the concern of ppl throwing money into the drain, I guess this would be a self correcting issue, as in at $60 a piece, if these buggers cannot sustain the corals, soon they will realise and feel the burn and stop buying. Furthermore, at that sort of prices, i guess only people with certain amount of experience will buy a piece to try... I hope i'm not making too many assumptions here. Anyway, if we are that kind to think for their "wasted" money, these money spent are actually injected into the already weak consumer market and WALA, they have done some good by strengthening the economy... My point is this money stuff can be an issue but NOT the issue here.

perhaps one of the attributes to impulse buying would be the hype that is created when beautiful specimens of sps are "promoted" to "entice" ppl into sps keeping when there was a vacuum of sps? I guess the accumulated fuel once lighted now would be hard to extinguish, prices are going to stay and numbers hard to get. Perhaps the embarkation on the extreme difficulties in keeping sps elaborated, might be a better way to put some of these implusive buyers off, for example, the cost of the electricity bill for the kilowatters lifesupport systems and the difficulty of acheiving zero nitrates. But even so, whats the real concern of impulse buying here? Disappointed would-be sps owners? Cruelty to SPS? Whats next? We know the reason deep down, dear.

Before AVA or whoever loosens the reign, late night queues at lfs would be inevitable for would-be-keen-to-get-sps-reefers.

[yazid]

I thought this is what the SRC is for.. promote awareness ... to preserve... and to sustain...

Not only SPS but all Marine life..

Don't start a reef until you are fully ready to embark.. (knowledge, time and money). Don't need to try and error as you can learn from experience reefer.

This message should go to all hobbyist whether they're SPS, LPS, softies or FO keepers.

[Phang]

I thought this is what the SRC is for.. promote awareness ... to preserve... and to sustain...

Not only SPS but all Marine life..

Don't start a reef until you are fully ready to embark.. (knowledge, time and money). Don't need to try and error as you can learn from experience reefer.

This message should go to all hobbyist whether they're SPS, LPS, softies or FO keepers.

Agree with you Yazid, reponsible reefing...

New Damsel, there is no hidden agenda here, like I said in my first posting, there is a chance that I might get flamed or misunderstood for starting this thread but reefers need to know so that if things go wrong and they make mistakes, they have to be fully responsible...

"" perhaps one of the attributes to impulse buying would be the hype that is created when beautiful specimens of sps are "promoted" to "entice" ppl into sps keeping when there was a vacuum of sps? ""

There's always a vacuum cos no one here wants to pay that kind of price for beautiful specimens here so all the stuff got shipped across.....

and..

People will always know of stocks arriving cos you can't stop people from posting their whereabouts esp now that these Stocks are CITES cleared....... and I think the best way is to promote this specific reef keeping through starting threads and sharing information that we learn.... isn't better than just keeping quiet and let reefers venture into this and regret much later.... do you really think the LFS are able to give the proper advices????

It is here and through the of experiences and knowledge from reefers that had actually help me to start in SPS too... and now I am able to because I listened to their advices .....

Look, we can't stop them but we can provide them with knowledge..... then they have to decide and be responsible...

I do however wish that more people get involved but through a orderly manner.... getting systems right then buy..... so only way is to educate or share information through thread postings of such kind which if you notice have been a more regular feature here then before (more SPS reefers have come out with pictures and the requirements to keep them)......

[robe]

For all those contemplating having SPS, (PART 1)

If you want to keep SPS get some experience first by keeping hardier corals like soft and LPS. IF you can keep them and grow them then you have gained enough experience to try SPS. I only kept SPS after two years when tank conditions and equipment enabled me to keep them alive.

You will require the following to keep SPS:

1) Deep pocket - this is a committment and its not cheap, expect $100+ a month for your electrical bill and this is just for a 4 footer, that excludes your additives, investment in good equipment like skimmer, MH lighting, chiller, pumps, calcium reactor and depending on your area an RO system for top-up (old estates with cast iron or steel pipes)

2) Passion, patience and interest to learn- money is not enough you need to have passion to keep you going throgh failures, patience to keep you from overloading your tank on the first month keeping SPS is measured in months not days or weeks, your reward in having a growing and thriving SPS tank is only after spending time that is measured in months to years.

interst to study and learn even when your tank is successful but of course learn before you even take the plunge.

3) Equipment requirements:

Skimmers - big and high throughput skimmers required 3-5 tank turnover per hour (thats measured through the actual water coming out of your skimmer, not you pump. Tunze, Red Sea, Sanders, Macro, those that has foam riser tubes less than 3 inches in diameter are not up to the job. You need big H&S, Euroreef, ETSS, MTC, BIg Turboflotors and other high capacity skimmers.

Lighting - most important equipment w/out which you can forget keeping SPS especially acroporas. Minimum required is at least 150 watts but only if you want them brown and barely growing or unless your tank is only 18 inches deep. For SPS like acroporas, 250 w every 2 feet of tank lenght is recommended (yup 750 watts for a 6 foot). For best growth and some color use 6500K( cheapest), color and growth but may not be as rapid 10000K (most expensive), for coloring up certain acros but little growth (20,000K moderately expensive). For ballast normal magnetic ballast will do the job, spend your money for the other equipment . Electronic ballast only if you're pocket is very deep. Last but not the least change bulbs at least once a year. Lifespan 20000K shortest 8-10 months, 10000K (8-12 months depending on brand), 6500K Iwasakis ( 12 months at least)

Pumps - a yes another expensive piece of equipment. IF your pocket is deep go for Iwaki otherwise settle with the China made pumps but one important requirement for your SPS tank is flow, lots of it. If your coral polyps does not wave then you don't have enough current flow in your tank. For those with really deep pockets then go for the Tunze wavemaker pumps whether it's the older version or the new propeller pumps.

[Ian]

Great job all!

I feel that everyones comments here is right. 3

I personally think that the process of ANY HOBBY should be:-

1) You like it (eg. dog,cat,rat,snake,wife opps! etc...)

2) You can afford it

3) You study about it

4) You get everything ready for it

5) You buy it!

Try this process for anything, it * should work with everything.

This is my view on this.

* girlfriend/boyfriend or spouses not included!!!

[harlequin]

if nobody buys, then the LFS won't bring them in. Customers demands drives business. That's what the industry is about. Imagine every LFS tell newbies not to buy any corals/fishes as much as they would like to sell, you'll won't see any LFS very soon.

Over the years, reefers gain experience and there is no right or wrong method. People can do only what their pockets allow them to do so. If someone chose to buy a 2ft tank to keep sps, no one can stop them.

You might as well open a SPCA equilvalent for Reefs if this happens.

People all over the world go to some sort of forums these days for any advice, and end up getting flamed because someone in the forum thinks he is the expert on that particular subject.

Watching all the words going back and forth from the sidelines really makes it more interesting to see how people can react so differently when they are behind their keyboards , with no face seen.

Just my 2 sandbits worth.

[Phang]

if nobody buys, then the LFS won't bring them in. Customers demands drives business. That's what the industry is about. Imagine every LFS tell newbies not to buy any corals/fishes as much as they would like to sell, you'll won't see any LFS very soon.

Over the years, reefers gain experience and there is no right or wrong method. People can do only what their pockets allow them to do so. If someone chose to buy a 2ft tank to keep sps, no one can stop them.

You might as well open a SPCA equilvalent for Reefs if this happens.

People all over the world go to some sort of forums these days for any advice, and end up getting flamed because someone in the forum thinks he is the expert on that particular subject.

Watching all the words going back and forth from the sidelines really makes it more interesting to see how people can react so differently when they are behind their keyboards , with no face seen.

Just my 2 sandbits worth.

Harlequin,

I agree with the supply and demand theory..... no doubt about that cos I did experience tremendous difficulties in getting those SPS .....

Managed top get them only through constant bugging and in the process of annoying some of the those reefers with these specimens....

However, if we do not educate and help those who are keen.... their few futile efforts at these stuff would result in failures and most probably they would avoid these specimens again..... ( Dun think that there enough stupid/dumb reefers here who would continue after constant failures )

These kind of demand is short term and does not help in the reefers industry......

I guess the best way to feed this demand is when substantial number of reefers are able to sustain these and then go out, buy the specimens, experience success and continue coming back again and again, therfore keeping the supply alive......

I always asked why we don't get these specimens here.... only 2 points worth taking note of...

firstly, not willing to pay that kind of money...

and the second and more important factor..... even got money, dunno how to keep and what to do ......

So calling out to all SPS wannabe reefers...... establish your reefs...( refer to Robes.... For all those contemplating having SPS, (PART 1) instructional ).......stay tune for part 2 and 3.... , and help in fueling the demand in the right and rational manner ........

Let's fuel the demand of SPS locally through establish successful reefs, good knowledge and common sense.......

[Phang]

BTW, I'm no expert.... jus a standard reefer who wants to contribute what he has learnt through others so that SPS keeping becomes easier, achievable and enjoyable.....

My reef is the sum total of all the information and advices gather from the likes of Robe, Tanzy, AT, Mogan etc...... it is standing well now and will always have room/demand for another SPS colony and frag because of the practical and valuable information and instructions provided by these reefers .......

Cheers....

[robe]

I guess everybody has a point that with no demand there will be no acros but without a sustained demand nobody will bring it again in the future or if they do they will charge an arm for it.

We don't create a demand just by letting everybody buy it without giving advice as in the long run those who tried and failed will give up and tell others as well not to give it a try. In the end demand will dry up, The few of us cannot sustain buying everytime a shipment comes in as well. So the best way is to do a knowledge transfer and help those who wannabes source for cheaper equipment and accessories through suppliers of lights, chillers or DIY skimmers and reactors.

Create a legion of knowledgeable reefers and you slowly create a demand so that in time SPS corals are as easy to keep as LPS or softies.

[chanbi]

Robe, well said! And i'm looking forward to your Part 2..

[Phang]

I guess everybody has a point that with no demand there will be no acros but without a sustained demand nobody will bring it again in the future or if they do they will charge an arm for it.

We don't create a demand just by letting everybody buy it without giving advice as in the long run those who tried and failed will give up and tell others as well not to give it a try. In the end demand will dry up, The few of us cannot sustain buying everytime a shipment comes in as well. So the best way is to do a knowledge transfer and help those who wannabes source for cheaper equipment and accessories through suppliers of lights, chillers or DIY skimmers and reactors.

Create a legion of knowledgeable reefers and you slowly create a demand so that in time SPS corals are as easy to keep as LPS or softies.

Well, the one with the full fledged SPS reef and IMO, one of the most knowledgable and practical here has spoken....

heheheh.....

BTW, when's the next frag trade.....