will this idea of my DIY-sump tank work

[giantbicycle]

As above...now i am cruently using a canister and cant stand the High N03 because not hardworking enough ... so i plan to DIY my own sump .. this picture is where the return from my EHIEM canister will return to my DIY sump tank instead of my main tank.. And from there , it will go through filter media , DSB, Mirco algale and back return to the main tank by a return pump..can this idea be done??The stetch is just a rough one as..i am lousy at drawing..and know nuts about this software..so pls excues..

My main tank is 2.5 by 1.5 by 1.5 feet

DIY sump tank is 2 by 1 by 2 feet and 6 itch of DSB..

THANKs to all advice given..

Regards:edwan

[giantbicycle]

[giantbicycle]

the orange drawing down to the sump tank is the EHIEM return ..It should actually return to my main but since i dont want to use any extra pump. i will divet the return to my sump instead ..and the black drawings is the return from my sump pumped from the sump diretcly out to the main tank...but still dont know how many liters/hr pump should i use ??

[giantbicycle]

my sump tank..

[jd_n]

Take these scenario into consideration

1. Return pump fail.> Sump flood

2. Cannister fail.> Main tank overflow

3. General power failure. Main tank water level drop to the bottom of cannister intake pipe in the main tank and sump will flood. (Apply only if cannister is capable of siphoning effect).

U must find means to counter the above.

[giantbicycle]

for the 2:) and 3) i can counter it because my intake in the main tank is very high up...and yes i am scared of my tank overflowing...

[jd_n]

For no.2...ur main tank water volume will have to be "tat low" tat when ur cannister fail. All the remaining water in the sump pumping back up into ur main tank will only reaches a max height in ur tank and will not overflow. Do some calculation, it will work but look very ugly with a 70-75% filled tank. Imagine ur main tank now is 150L and ur new sump is going to be 20L. U have to remove 20L from the present main tank to allow for room of mistake so tat ur total volume is still 150L. Else 150+20 = 170 in main tank = overflow.

Nxt is what will happen when ur sump runs dry and ur return pump still running? = Hot = fire hazard!

As for no.3, as long the water removed from main tank into sump is below the sump max volume then its ok.

Headache huh

[ryan]

actually just make sure that if the volume of water in the return chamber of the sump is added to the main tank and it doesn't overflow then it should be ok...

so when you make the sump tank, keep the return chamber smaller lah...

[giantbicycle]

whao........... so..now how can i go about without minus the 20L in the main tank..as it will really looks ugly with only 70-75% water left..

yar..great headace any ways..so that toprevent flood ?and

[ryan]

get external overflow box?

[giantbicycle]

actually just make sure that if the volume of water in the return chamber of the sump is added to the main tank and it doesn't overflow then it should be ok...

so when you make the sump tank, keep the return chamber smaller lah...

so u mean fill the sump tank with lesser water so in case if the canister got problem the water pumped back by the sump can still be able to store back to the main tank without overflowing,..Is this wat you trying to say ?? but like that , how can i caculate ??

Whao...big problem here...

actually this setup can work but just that you guys are taking careful precaution so that it will not flood right.. THANKS.....if not..1 day who knows i will come back home with my floor all wet and sticky..

[giantbicycle]

you mean IAN I-Ref...ohh...i actually consider that but scared because of the weight and space constrain...

[Hondace]

Bro....IMHO leave the canister as it is. if u think I-sump is too heavy & I-box is too ex. Then i recommend some of our bros DIY overflow syst (look up the threads here in the DIY forum). It will prevent overflowing & also perform surface skimming.

[giantbicycle]

ahya.....now very luan....know nuts about how does overflow syst work..although i search and read on SRC and even saw some at RC but still confussed...

[porc]

hi ,

basically your design is equivalent to a full siphon overflow, the flow through the canister will continue even if the canister pump stops (assuming there is no check-valve involved). This is something that has been discussed in at least 2 other threads over the last few days here in the DIY section. There, we were discussing the design with control valves to control both the return and siphon pipes so that the flow rates in and out of your tank are equal. but in your case you do not have any control valves and your siphon in fact has a pump pushing the water through... so although your design is conceptually workable, it is incapable of being tuned, and unless you are really lucky (i mean really really lucky.. hint hint... ) your design won't work for more 2 minutes... think about it... suppose your return pump is 1200 l/hr and your canister pump is 1000 l/h, or the other way round... what will happen?

and even if you add the control valves to make it tunable, i would say that the "full siphon" overflow is still a more risky design which may be prone to runaways. some of the scenarios that could happen have been described above and also in the following thread http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15023 .

i would recommend an overflow system like an I-box or a diy one as I mentioned in the other threads whereby there's no need to control anything. the main design advantage here is that whatever you pump back to the main tank will automatically flow down to the sump. with this design you can even reuse your canister as a closed loop in the main tank and increase circulation.

as for the flood control allowances there's no escaping it. but the "uglyness" of having the allowance space can be minimize by the placement of your pumps and outputs. let's take your example. your main tank is 2ft x 1.5ft x 1.5ft and your sump is 2ft x 1.5ft x 2ft(ht).

suppose your "ideal" water level is 1.5" (less than 4cm, still reasonable right??) below the top of your tank and your return piping outlet is 1" below your water level. so if your return pump fails 30 x 18 x 1 = 540 cubic inches of water will flow back down to the sump, which means you need at least 540/(24x18)= 1.25" empty height in your sump. And you are not allowing your sump to fill to the brim right? so if you give an extra 1" allowance, your sump water level can be 2.25" (5.7cm) from the top of the sump. it's a sump anyway and 2+ inches out of 2 ft height still gives you plenty of space for your dsb and microalgae.

but your placement of return pump must be calculated soo. If you place your return pump inlet 1" below the sump water level, when your overflow somehow fails you will pump at most 24x18x1=432 cubic inches back to your main tank, which works out to be an increase of 432/(30x18)= 0.8 inches in your main tank. but remember yur "ideal" operating tank level is 1.5" below the top as assumed earlier, so no problems here too...

hope this helps.. do ask more questions if you have any... fire away!!!

cheers...

[rainbowdarter]

Hi Bro GB,

sample

sump_diagram_2.xls

[giantbicycle]

THANKS PROC for the understandable explanation....ahya....now very confussed dont know how to go about...

[jd_n]

THANKS PROC for the understandable explanation....ahya....now very confussed dont know how to go about...

Get a I~box, it will solve ur headache or get a new tank

Anyway, so many pple lettin go their tank w cabinet cheap.

[giantbicycle]

okiee..will check out with new tank ...hope to get a largger tank too then can upgrade also...so you mean it is not worth trying out my idea ??

[jd_n]

okiee..will check out with new tank ...hope to get a largger tank too then can upgrade also...so you mean it is not worth trying out my idea ??

U can go ahd with ur idea but buy more mops in case u may nd to mop the floor

[giantbicycle]

U can go ahd with ur idea but buy more mops in case u may nd to mop the floor

haha..and extra dynamo ..detol...lysol...washing liquid.. okiww..will forget about the idea cous 80% mights not work..and in the end spend more $$$