Calcium and dkh question

[lightningstrike]

i use 6 tea spoons but it does not readily mix with the water mah....there will definitely be white residue on the bottom of the container, so more or less i assume that 6 teaspoon will be spread over a period of 1 week.....

i don't pour in all 3 ltrs of top up at one go, i do it throughout the day, about 500ml each time....

do a search on acetic acid...... it will definitely do u no harm.....

[typrobin]

Bro,

have you measured your Calcium, PH and dkh? I dose only 1 teaspoon every 3-5 days and my calcium rose from 470-480 to 520-530.... u may wanna be real certain of ur readings before you start dosing again, if not ur tank will crash....

Dun worry about the residue at the bottom of the bottle, dat is why its better to make a drip, and when u do, the tap should not be at the bottom, it should be at about 1.5 inch away from the bottom of the bottle...

Vincent Ho

bro, u don't wanna sell me your cal teskit!!!! hahahahha

i nvr test any of this parameters b4.....guess i have to spend money again....hai.........

[RAV-65]

Chey! sell u so cheap, but u dun wan wat! kekekeke...

Vincent Ho

[ReDDeviLs]

if calcium level is too high,anyway to bring it down?

btw calcium test kit very expensive!

[typrobin]

from wat i noe, the only way is to let it subside by itself....add only additives to maintain your dkh and nothing to increase or maintain calcium level....once it gets back to normal, use kalk to maintain both...

[Michael Young]

Read this article..

[KingFish]

Hmm ... in retrospect, perhaps I should not have used the term 'increase', it can be be open to misinterpretation.

ervine and untouchables caught my drft and has attempted to explain.

In any case... assuming everyone has read Randy's articles (yes, there are more)

Michael & Infinitereef,

Would I then be able to boost my Calcium level with use of Kalk?

[fecgoh]

Here is my understanding.....

If your tank is very low in calcium, increase it with calcium chloride (Kent Turbo Calcium or Kent Liquid Calcium).

If your tank is low in Kh, increase it with sodium bicarbonate (KH Buffer).

Once calcium is at 400-450 and Kh is 8-12, stop adding. You will notice both calcium and Kh will go down in a few days if you dont add anything. That is why you use calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser) to maintain it so that both the calcium and Kh dont fall. So calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser) is use to maintain.

If your calcium is very low and you wanna increase it (BOOST) , use calcium chloride. If you wanna just maintain calcium that is slowly depleated from your tank, use calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser).

A side note: If you have a tank full of hard corals or sps that take up calcium faster than you can say "Ah.. what happen", you might need to add a bit calcium chloride and calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser) to maintain 400-450.

Do buy Kh and Calcium test kit and test them before and after adding the above stuff. Then test again 5 days later to see if it maintain about the same level. Then you can adjust the amount needed to add.

If my info is wrong, do correct me.

Frankie

[nsyahron]

The short answer to whether kalkwasser can be used to boost Ca level is YES, however as a forumer indicated previously (i forgot who), this will lead to high tank pH due to high pH of kalk solution. That is why RHF suggests using calcium chloride to boost Ca since there would be no or minimal rise in pH. Kalkwasser is normally dosed by dripping, that is why it is more suitable for "maintaining" Ca level, although in fact it does supply Ca to the tank, albeit slowly.

[KingFish]

Though I try to avoid this recurring topic, I guess I have no choice.

To be very precise, it is correct to say adding calcium hydroxide solution to the tank water will add Calcium ions into the water.

However, in practice, kalk should not be used as a means to increase the calcium level since kalk solution contains pH value of up to 11. Which means without measured and controlled addition, it will invariably affect the pH value in the water chemistry.

Along with higher pH come hosts of other problems which I will not discuss, I leave it to you guys to find out.

To extend a little on the correlation to pH value; if there is insufficient Carbon Dioxide in the water, the Calcium ions from the kalk solution will be precipitated out as Carbon Carbonate.

A more economical solution to increasing Ca level in the water is the use of Calcium reactor. It works out cheaper in the long run though Calcium Chloride may not be so pricey now. Besides, the extensive use of Calcium Chloride will also lead to excess of Chloride ions in your water which is hard to export without a significant percentage of water change. But be warned though, Ca Reactor needs careful tuning or its a bane.

I'm coming from the practical point of view when I mean 'increase' is to boost the Ca level in larger parts per million. I'm not even about to go into Ca uptake.

We can go into a scholastic argument of what 'increase' mean, but it will be fruitless. I can add some flashy formulas but that would be too.

So be it how advanced an aquarist think he/she is, arguing for the sake of arguing is pointless as it not only lead nowhere, but also confuses the ones learning - and I mean this in a polite manner.

[keithtty]

Always wanted to ask this question...

What is the current understanding on the use of EDTA based calcium additive? Do they do more harm than good? Being a chelating agent, and seeing that it can binds so well with the metal ion, is there any clear evidence that the Ca is biologically available for the coral like some brands claim? I think the use of EDTA is gradually being frowned upon in process chemicals used in electronic manufacturing because it poses a health concern.

[Michael Young]

Michael & Infinitereef,

Would I then be able to boost my Calcium level with use of Kalk?

Yes, kalk will indeed boost calcium level. This was the question posted by Infinitereef and I was merely answering that question. However, in retrospect, I should have stated that kalkwasser, while increasing calcium level will also increase pH and alkalinity of the water.

I agree that dosing kalkwasser as the main calcium supplement can be tricky at times due to the reasons you cited; but it has also been discussed ad nauseam by forums everywhere that using a calcium reactor as the main source of calcium supplement is not entirely fool proof as well. (A bane you said? )

A calcium reactor, if not used correctly, will cause the depression of pH due to the use of CO2, which in turn will lead to the proliferation of nuisance algae among other things. That is why IMO, a calcium reactor is best use in tandem with a kalk reactor because of the latter's ability to precipitate PO4 and increase pH. One is a good hedge for the other.

Therefore, by saying that kalkwasser is an impratical way of boosting calcium without pointing out its advantages and the disadvantages of the ca reactor is a little misleading. After all, dosing kalkwasser has been practiced for many years (and still in practice) with success before the invention of the calcium reactor.

[KingFish]

Yada yada... we seem to be getting nowhere with this since it looks more like repeating each other so I'll leave everyone to decide what's what with Calcium.

Sorry Keith, ditto, I'll leave you in the good hands of Michael.

[Michael Young]

Yada yada... we seem to be getting nowhere with this since it looks more like repeating each other so I'll leave everyone to decide what's what with Calcium.

Sorry Keith, ditto, I'll leave you in the good hands of Michael.

Woah woah woah, is that sarcasm I just detected? Hold on to your horses dude. I offered my opinion on the pros and cons on the use of kalkwasser and the calcium reactor which you didn't elaborate for all to share that's all. Nothing more.

Keith, don't count on me to offer any insight to the question you posted cos I haven't a clue in what you were saying. I'm no chemist and my very limited knowledge on calcium and its use is restricted to the hobby of reef keeping only. Rumor's too kind.

[Alentino]

yikes..... ok in simple words Kalk will definitely boost calcium level, however if your test has determined your calcium level to be super duper low, DON'T use kalk to bring up the value back to the desired 400++, cuz like they said will upset the balance of ph and stuffs. Just perform a water change or use calcium supplements. if it's not too low then dripping kalk will bring up Ca levels slowly with no negative consequences

[KingFish]

I'm incapable of sarcasm Mike, I'm more in-your-face type.

Now that we have confused those seeking answers, perhaps then they'll find out and rationalise it themselves; instead of having to spoonfeed them all the time.

If in doubt, there are 6 magic letters, G O O G L E

Not in tending at your Vince, just in general, so did you find what you were looking for?

[Michael Young]

Peace brother Rumor

And for those thinking of boosting your calcium level to the level of NSW and above with kalk, you may want to know that for every 20ppm of calcium gain, you'll increase your alkalinity by 2.8 dKh.

The pH raising effect of kalk will also raise your pH by about 0.7 if 1.25 litre of saturated kalkwasser is dripped into 100 litres of tank water; and this will only raise your calcium level by 10ppm.

[onghm]

The pH raising effect of kalk will also raise your pH by about 0.7 if 1.25 litre of saturated kalkwasser is dripped into 100 litres of tank water; and this will only raise your calcium level by 10ppm.

Hi Michael,

i could arrive at the increase of 10ppm calcium if 1.25 litres of saturated kalk is added to a 100 litre tank using this useful chemistry calculator http://www.kademani.com/reefchem.htm

Wondering how do you arrive at the 0.7 increase in ph ?

Is there another uselful online calculator also ?

[Michael Young]

Onghm, I don't think there is a calculator for that. In fact, the pH figure was taken from studies by RHF and my own personal experience when adding kalkwasser to synthetic salt water.

Please note that the natural pH level of every aquarium is different and the pH figure I quoted earlier should only be served as a guide.

[onghm]

Thanks Michael.

ok, so the 0.7 is juz a rough guide.

Cause if the 1.25l of kalk is dripped slow enough to a strong flow area, the increas in ph would then be smaller.