Cultivation of anaerobic bateria

[Limpc]

Hi all,

Somehow I have setup up a refugium with DSB and some macroalgae. Hope to control the nitrate level.

Are there any way to shorten the leadtime to cultivate the anaerobic bateria ? Any additive etc ?

I came across some nitrate reducing stuff from Tetra in the Clementic fish shop. This stuff is to be mixed with the substrate and claims to be effective in nitrate reduction. Wonder if all these bullshit is true.

Comments please.

Limpc

[EbiTank]

hi limpc, i had my dsb for 5 weeks already, and still cannot see any results. read that min. 3 mths to 1 yr for it to be functional.

mine is 7" sloping to 3" (no. 1).

also interested in how to expedite the process...

[Tanzy]

For DSB to work, it's not only the bacteria, but also the sand bed fauna like pods and worms must be of sufficient numbers too. The bacteria grows very fast but the worms and pods are slower. Without these, nitrates and nutrients don't travel down the DSB as fast.

[hongqixian]

Hi all,

Somehow I have setup up a refugium with DSB and some macroalgae. Hope to control the nitrate level.

Are there any way to shorten the leadtime to cultivate the anaerobic bateria ? Any additive etc ?

I came across some nitrate reducing stuff from Tetra in the Clementic fish shop. This stuff is to be mixed with the substrate and claims to be effective in nitrate reduction. Wonder if all these bullshit is true.

Comments please.

Limpc

I believe you want anoxic(very little oxygen) bacteria and not anaerobic(no oxygen). Doesn't anoxic bacteria convert nitrates much better than anaerobic?

[eprouve]

Damn... (pardon the hijack, but this is relevant):

Wouldn't putting a skimmer just before the refugium aerate/oxygenate the water, making the refugium un-anoxic?

[Tanzy]

Whether there is a skimmer or not, the water should be at the maximum oxygen saturation level for the air pressure. The DSB developes it's own oxygen gradient independant of the water oxygen saturation.

[Limpc]

I believe you want anoxic(very little oxygen) bacteria and not anaerobic(no oxygen). Doesn't anoxic bacteria convert nitrates much better than anaerobic?

kena blur by you, leh. I thought DSB is to deplete the oxygen level to the min. for the anaerobic bateria to survive and thus using up the NO3.

Limpc

[hongqixian]

kena blur by you, leh. I thought DSB is to deplete the oxygen level to the min. for the anaerobic bateria to survive and thus using up the NO3.

Limpc

You said minimum. Bacteria using a bit of oxygen is considered anoxic. Anaerobic is bacteria that absolutely uses no oxygen.

I believe both types convert nitrates to nitrogen gas but perhaps at different rates. Perhaps Tanzy can elaborate?

[BarraCudaTM]

anaerobic bacteria uses none or very little oxygen but they still need oxygent to survive

btw adding sugar will give tank a bacteria bloom

[Achilles Tang]

You said minimum. Bacteria using a bit of oxygen is considered anoxic. Anaerobic is bacteria that absolutely uses no oxygen.

I think you made a mistake.

Anaerobic is very very low in oxygen (almost anoxic)

Anoxic is devoid of oxygen.

Anoxic bacteria can thrive because they can use certain oxides eg. oxygen bonded to iron and manganese or other elements)

The bacteria that processes nitrates is the anaerobic bacteria. Even these can be killed when oxygen is totally depleted eg. when a sandbed is subjected to no water flow or circulation, causing lowered oxygen in the top layers, very very little oxygen from reaching the middle... and having zero oxygen in the bottom layer.

That is why a sandbed will stink over time when left to 'rot'. Of course, not only the bacteria dies but all the sand fauna will die too.

The purpose of a DSB is so that we can cause lowered oxygen levels at the bottom layers for the anaerobic bacteria to thrive. If you keep digging into the sand bed.... and thus allow oxygen to penetrate into the deeper layers, you will cause the demise of anaerobic bacteria.

Perhaps the confusion is that anaerobic bacteria lives in anoxic conditions.

[Limpc]

anaerobic bacteria uses none or very little oxygen but they still need oxygent to survive

btw adding sugar will give tank a bacteria bloom

Sure or not ? Tried before ?

Is it anaerobic or aerobic bateria ?

scarlee my fishes kena diabete and have to send them for dialysis.

Limpc

[BarraCudaTM]

it will create a bacteria bloom and make yr water cloudy, nitrates will go down fast too

I tried before using ½ teaspoon for my 4ft

[Limpc]

So what u do for the cloudy water ?

Limpc

[BarraCudaTM]

it will clear up in a day or 2

[Tanzy]

In anaerobic (Latin for 'no air' but used to mean devoid of oxygen) conditions, bacteria won't use nitrates as their electron acceptor during metabolism but they use sulphate instead, so forming hydrogen sulphide. In anoxic (Latin for 'no oxygen', but used to mean lack of oxygen or oxygen in low concentrations) conditions, the bacteria can use nitrate and nitrogen gas is formed. Anoxic conditions are what we want for denitrification.

[Limpc]

ok, ok. Let me be an idiot again, forget about all the scientific terms ..... would a 6" DSB with refugium located after a skimmer be ok for denitrification process ?

hmmm, hope to get some lay man reply.

Limpc

[BarraCudaTM]

yap .. enough

[eprouve]

Barracuda summed it up real nice.

[DragonGoby]

Hi,

I'm no expert here, but just 2c worth.

What we're discussing here are termed facultative anaerobes, which means that these bacteria can survive in either anaerobic conditions or anoxic conditions; however, they consume different substrates in each case as pointed out by Tanzy. You definitely do not want these facultative anaerobes to start going truly anaeroxic, thereby producing H2S that's toxic.

Using a skimmer will increase overall O2 saturation in the tank water, but does not necessarily mean the destruction of an anoxic environment within the lower sand areas, provided that:

1) The sand is deep enough for *very* slow diffusion of water down the layers, and

2) The lower layers of the DSB are not disturbed mechanically.

For the cloudy water, it can be disturbed fine substrate, which will clear up in a day or two with mechanical filtration, or a bacterial bloom, during which you really have to increase aeration of the water or the entire thing will foul up, or just undissolved low-weight stuff floating around, which really should have been dunked out by a good protein skimmer. In any case, your best bet would be to wait a day or two to see if the water becomes clear again. If not, check your mechanical filter and make sure it's not clogged (yah, I know it's obvious, but hey - I've made that same mistake myself once! ). If everything else looks fine and you're sure you've got sufficient aeration, it's high time to dump in a satchet or two of water polishers, buddy. Stuff like activated carbon or whatever other minerals those companies out there offer.

Good luck!!

Regards,

Hong Yee

[Limpc]

thanks guys.

Will update if I finally won the battle against nitrate.

happy valentine.

Limpc