MH: Ready to Buy

[Achilles Tang]

Robe, I was thinking of getting 6 bulbs eventually.

Confirmed -> 2 x 400 watt radiums for colouration.

More or less confirmed -> 2 x 10k DE for the white look I like.

To be confirmed -> 2 x 6500k iwasakis for max par.

The sakis will be switched on when I at work for a couple of hours as I dislike the yellowish-green colour it gives but want it only for its coral-growth acceleration benefits.

When I return home, I should be enjoying the 'white with a tinge of blue' look given by my 10k and radiums.

Potentially, I could reduce my photoperiod to 8 hours instead of 10 or 12 if I blast high intensity for at least 3 to 4 hours.

The only thing now is to decide the wattage for the 10k and 6500 sakis.

Your opinion?

[DragonGoby]

Personally I don't mind the looks of the Saki, but I'll keep the Radium-Saki Combi in mind. My beau actually reckons that the Saki alone looked more natural, like what a natural sun-lit sea should look like - still, she's never dived before, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt! (pun NOT intended)

Anyway, if I want to merge the colours with a radium, what should be the minimum distance the 2 bulbs should be apart?

[Ian]

Balance the Iwasakis by putting in Radium 20KK bulb. Your corals also glow under Radiums lke actinic. If you put the bulbs closer they tend to merge the color together an comes out a nice white with a hint of blue. Between an Ushio 10KK I prefer the Radium Iwasaki combination. YOu still need a bit of actinic supplementation with 10KK bulbs to make it really white.

Hi robe, So just to clarify, Sakis 250W 6500K combined with Radium ???W 20K. Is this correct? If so for a 4 2 2 tank how would the placements be? Thanks

[pet]

Ian,

You might want a Sakis 6500K + 20KK combination. The 20KK is Bluish-white to the eye -> not thru the aquarium, but once switch on for 10 mintues, it will appear very WHITISH in color withy a tone of blue. The CRI is very good. One thing to note of Sakis's MH is that they have a very balance CRI, a very unbalance CRI example will be coral_life 10KK, which is much more bluish than a 40KK or 50KK bulb, which inturn give a lousy PAR. PAR is calculated base on a balance of the % of color from the light spectrum. A good balance will give a high PAR and light color near to what the sunlight deliver. THe Sakis 20KK has a good CRI, although there wasn't any analysis report, but I believe it will still carry a higher PAR than any 10KK, 14KK bulb out there, except for 1 of the german 10KK- can't remeber the name. Note also the bluer the light, would only mean't that there's more % of blue wavelength and natural result in a low PAR. Whitish light is question mark, since white light can be produce with a balance of color spectrum leading towards orange, green or blue, which ever lead towards a higher PAR? Juz my 2 cents.

Pet

[chanbi]

AT, wow!! Potentially u will be upgrading from ~300W to at least 1300W and peak intensity at 1800W? U can also be the next PUB VIP member! min $200+ per mth..

[Phang]

DO take note that the 250Ws and 400Ws Radiums have different colours in terms of blue...

personally seen the effect of the bulbs with magnetic ballast...

the 250Ws are more bluish and would help more in balancing the yellows in Sakis are the intended lights...downside is the low PAR...

For the 400Ws, they appear less bluish and might have difficulty in balancing yellow dominated light sources.... on the advantage side, higher PAR generated....

Think got something to do with the wattage...

From what I have gathered, a Radium 400W blue bulb actually runs on 360W, placing a HPS ballast which have a activated wattage at around 430 W, overdrives the bulb, creating a whiter light source, but lowers the bulb lifespan...... about 9 months....

HPS ballast are available locally....

[chanbi]

I think AT should have seen the 400W radium at Tanzy's tank? I like the colour but i can't afford the heat/$$.. but then again, Tanzy does use additional 110W of actinic.

[Tanzy]

For those interested, you can go toLighting comparison to have a look at how Ushio compares to Radium, but do note that the colours have been exaggerated for comparison and will not represent how they look in the tank. Also remember that our eyes have inbuilt blue balance that makes the Radiums look a lot whiter than they really are.

The tank with 2x 400W Radium, 110W Actinic and 40W 10000K actually looks closest to this pic I took in January.

[pospeh]

Using 2 400W Radiums which puts out minimal PAR seems awfully expensive in terms of the light bill and the load on the chiller.

If the goal is to get better coral colouration, why can't the 250W version instead. I mean, the extra PAR put out by that extra 150W of power wont seem to contribute that much to coral coloration, other than burning a hole in your pocket.

Or even alternatively, to only use AB 250W 10Ks or 400W 10Ks, and supplement with 110W actinics. Although not comparable to 6.5K Sakis, AB lights are know to put out the most PAR in the 10K (actually 14K) range of bulbs.

[Tanzy]

If you look at numbers and not just speculate then you will know why.

1) 400W Radiums have higher PPFD than 10000K Ushio or AB. (114.4 vs. 107.5)

2) 250W Radium is a very different bulb from the 400W one. It has lower efficiency and the colour is different. That extra 150W gives more than double the lumens. (3000 vs. 8000)

3) Most importantly, I like the colour of Radiums more than 10000K. Acros also look better under Radium than Ushio, LPS remains the same.

4) Radiums are cheaper, though not much more since you replace them every 9 months compared to 1 year for 10000K. A small amount is saved still.

[DragonGoby]

Tanzy, you really whet my appetite with your 400W Radiums! I know I can get the ballasts etc from Eye, but where is the bulb available?

Also, just for opinion's sake - would placing the 2 bulbs (Saki and presumably 400W Radiums) 5 cm head-on distance pose any problems? Say, with overheating in the immediate area?

[[-----) 5cm (-----]]

Radium Saki

[spiff]

If you look at numbers and not just speculate then you will know why.

1) 400W Radiums have higher PPFD than 10000K Ushio or AB. (114.4 vs. 107.5)

hi tanzy

where did u get this info from?

[pospeh]

hi tanzy

where did u get this info from?

I believe he got the above info from Sanjay Joshi's personal website.

The data were gathered from single-ended 400W bulbs (Radium vs. Ushio, not AB) using blueline electronic ballasts.

I caution that bluelines are optimized for higher temp bulbs because it is driven at a higher frequency. Using regular magetic ballasts, the Ushios actually perform better than Radiums (99.11 vs. 90.63).

So the moral of the story is the Radiums need the electronic ballasts to perform at their best PAR.

Joshi has also performed tests on AB lights.

The single-ended 400W AB lights perform better than Ushios and Radiums (PPFD of 135 using magnetic ballasts).

250W double-ended models have a PPFD of 128, even outperforming the 6.5K 250W Iwasakis, rated at 104. For the maximum PAR at the same wattage, the double-ended lamps clearly outperform their single-ended cousins.

[spiff]

huh from sanjay's page, radium is onyl 90.06 while ushio is 105.70

[Tanzy]

Spiff,

Like what Pospeh says, the bulb must be matched to the correct ballast.

Dragongoby,

Radiums are available from US online shops or locally from Penta. There's some kind of bulk ordering going on that kind of fizzled out at the moment.

I think it should be OK because my FL tubes are about that distance from the bulbs. As long as there is adequate ventilation its feasible but you will lose some light between the 2 bulbs.

Pospeh,

Refering to the PM, the DE bulbs were tested without UV shield so the readings cannot be compared to SE bulbs. If the UV shield was fitted the PPFD will be greatly reduced. SE bulbs are almost DE bulbs in a borosilicate envelope and a screw cap.

[Phang]

Spiff,

Like what Pospeh says, the bulb must be matched to the correct ballast.

Pospeh,

Refering to the PM, the DE bulbs were tested without UV shield so the readings cannot be compared to SE bulbs. If the UV shield was fitted the PPFD will be greatly reduced. SE bulbs are almost DE bulbs in a borosilicate envelope and a screw cap.

Just need some confirmation on this...

Read from somewhere that the Radium is not a true 400W bulb.... in fact, they are rated at 360W for commercial usage....

Reefers use them for their blue look.....

The higher PPFD might be the result of the generated wattage of 430 usual from E ballast... therefore when ran on a standard ballast with a 400 rating, bulbs appear blue and generated less PAR....

However, theres a ballast that is known as High Pressure Sodium Ballast (HPS) that generates 430Ws..... these should also give the similar PAR readings generated by the E ballast....

I'm using a HPS currently......

The tests made from Sanjay ....

http://www.geocities.com/justinbaldwin/Sanjay.html

Pospeh, the 250W Sakis generated 140.7 PAR......

Its unlikely any bulb would match a Saki in terms on PAR generation....

[TTBoy]

Need u experts advice.

I am thinking of either purchasing the 400W Aqualine 10k or Ushio 10k. Will be using the 400w eballst to drive it.

Which bulb would u recommend? thanks!

[Tanzy]

Need u experts advice.

I am thinking of either purchasing the 400W Aqualine 10k or Ushio 10k. Will be using the 400w eballst to drive it.

Which bulb would u recommend? thanks!

Ushio if you like WHITE. AB if you like white with a tinge of blue. Radium if you like blueish white.

Blueline e-ballast I suppose.

Phang,

HPS ballast = MH ballast (same thing)

The ballast used in the PFO ballast set is the Son Agro 430W HPS ballast. 430W is a wattage for HPS bulb not MH bulbs. Definitely overdriving a 360W Radium.

I think there are 4300K and 5500K bulbs that beat the 6500K Saki in PAR but want to grow algae?

[Phang]

Phang,

HPS ballast = MH ballast (same thing)

The ballast used in the PFO ballast set is the Son Agro 430W HPS ballast. 430W is a wattage for HPS bulb not MH bulbs. Definitely overdriving a 360W Radium.

I think there are 4300K and 5500K bulbs that beat the 6500K Saki in PAR but want to grow algae?

Hmmmm.... let me check the specs of the ballast that I got ........

[Tanzy]

Check for what? Don't tell me you will go out and buy 430W ballasts for the Radiums if they aren't? Collecting ballasts?

[pospeh]

Need u experts advice.

I am thinking of either purchasing the 400W Aqualine 10k or Ushio 10k. Will be using the 400w eballst to drive it.

Which bulb would u recommend? thanks!

The AB will also put out more PAR compared to the Ushio/BLV by around 30%

The downside to AB is the added costs of around $20

[Phang]

Check for what? Don't tell me you will go out and buy 430W ballasts for the Radiums if they aren't? Collecting ballasts?

oops..... a ballast freak????