MH: Ready to Buy

[DragonGoby]

Hi everyone,

After much consideration, I've finally decided to get a pair of 250W Sakis. Just need some help from those who know:

1) What is the approximate cost of each 250W Saki ballast?

2) Cost of bulb?

3) Where I can buy the ballast?

Thanks a lot!!

Hong Yee

[chanbi]

Are u sure u want both Sakis? What other light do u have to supplement that? else it will be very yellowish.. To answer your question, u can get all the necessary parts at Eye Lighting and each set is ~$130. The addr is ...

Eye Lighting

21 Kaki Bukit Place, Eunos Techpark

Tel: 67423611 (Agnes) or Bernard Low

[Joe_pp]

Hi everyone,

After much consideration, I've finally decided to get a pair of 250W Sakis. Just need some help from those who know:

1) What is the approximate cost of each 250W Saki ballast?

2) Cost of bulb?

3) Where I can buy the ballast?

Thanks a lot!!

Hong Yee

Jus a recommendation.... drop the Sakis.....

DIY a good parabolic reflector.....

and use it on one 400W Radium.....

if you need additional lights ....... put one iwasaki 20kk 150W bulb on stand by.....

You gonna get the required PAR and good coloration........

and the wattge would be rather similar.... 550Ws compared to 500W........

[DragonGoby]

Hi, thanks for the address and your comments. Wouldn't the 400W Radiums require special ballasts? Last time I heard the ballasts cost $400 each, which is way beyond my budget. Any ideas on this? I'll be supplementing with 3 NO Actinics if I use the Sakis.

Regards,

Hong Yee

[Joe_P]

$400???? wow, that's expensive....

My ballast coupled with capacitor, ignitor and bulb holder only cost me around $80....

you must be referring to electromagnetic ballast....

IMO, 3 NO actinics would not be enough.... cos you will need lots..... and your wattage would increase requiring that much actinics...

[mv3i]

hi guys , ( chanbi and joe p ... and the usual lot )

i'm looking for a MH 150W DE bulb to replace mine .... thinking of 10k but with more bluish tone to the pure white 10k one ... any recommendations ??

thanks

[Joe_P]

You can try out the Iwasaki 20kk bulb.... bluish white tinge....

[DragonGoby]

Does the Saki 20KK bulb come in 250W or 150W?

You mean you got the entire setup for your 400W Radiums at $80 apiece, minus the bulb price? That sounds good man! Don't really need electronic ballasts lah, I think I'll use magnetic ballasts will do.

Regards,

Hong Yee

[Phang]

Saki 20kk comes only in 150W.... DE and SE....

And yes Magnetic ballast are cheap...

That should be around the price for one setup excluding bulb...

[DragonGoby]

Is EYE lighting open on Sun?

[BarraCudaTM]

opens only from monday to friday

[DragonGoby]

Thanks!

[Ian]

$400???? wow, that's expensive....

My ballast coupled with capacitor, ignitor and bulb holder only cost me around $80....

you must be referring to electromagnetic ballast....

IMO, 3 NO actinics would not be enough.... cos you will need lots..... and your wattage would increase requiring that much actinics...

Hey Joe,

Did you get them from eye lighting? Or where can i get them? I'm looking for 2 250W 10000K and 1 150W 20000k.

Which brand do you recommend?

Thx

[pet]

Hi Ian,

You might want to take a reading in the below article before committing. I would highly recommend Iwasaki 6500K & 20KK, supplement by 50KK. I only believe in PROVEN product with data. I noticed that there's a lot push on Radium, but the actual PAR is petty bad, since it's CRI isn't that good. 1 lesson you need to know is to buy base on data not your EYE. I believe, there's a research somewhere on the net. stating that the the Iwasaki last twise as long, without degrading on CS, compare to the nearest competitor, outlast the American brand 3X. I'm looking at the economy perspective, well if you got TONs of cash to spare, U can probably ingore my judgement.

Start Here - Cut & Paste

_______________________________

The Iwaski 6500 K lamp has a more uniform distribution over the entire spectrum, with higher output in the yellow and green range, which gives it the yellowish/green cast that most aquarists complain about. The Hungarian/GE 10,000 K lamp has a distribution that is very different from the 10,000 K Aqualine Buschke lamp. The Coralife 10,000 K lamp has a spectral distribution that is almost identical to that of the 20,000 K Osram/Radium lamp. This spectrum explains why most hobbyists find that the 10,000 K Coralife lamps are too blue when compared with other 10,000 K lamps.

The Iwasaki 6500 K has a higher output than the other lamps over the entire PAR range (400 nm to 700 nm), except for two spikes from the other lamps. The Aqualine Buschke 10,000 K lamp shows a slightly higher output than the Iwasaki in the violet range (400 nm to 440 nm) and the Osram/Radium 20,000K and the Coralife 10,000K both have a large spike at 454 nm.

Using this spectral distribution, we computed the PPFD (or PAR in the range 400 nm to 700 nm) for each lamp. Figure 2 shows a comparison of the various values. The output of light in the photosynthetic range of the Iwasaki lamp is about 50 percent higher than the output of the 10,000 K Aqualine Buschke lamp, 75 percent higher than that of the 20,000 K Osram/Radium lamp and almost 100 percent higher than that of the 10,000 K Coralife lamp.

TABLE III

Total PPFD and CCT of the various lamps tested

Lamp Type PPFD CCT

PPFP CCT

6500 K Iwasaki 205.1 6200 K

10,000 K Aqualine 135.0 8100 K

6000 K GE/Hungary 140.7 6217 K

20,000 K Osram/Radium 116.2 Out of range

10,000 K Coralife 103.6 Out of range

The CCT for the 20,000 K Osram/Radium lamp was out of the range of the software used to compute CCT. By definition, CCT can be determined only for sources that have at least some similarity to a black body. In order to calculate the CCT or to determine it graphically, the lamp’s output must be a mixture of different colors of light. If a lamp is too monochromatic (made up of one color) its CCT cannot be determined. The 20,000 K Osram/Radium and the 10,000 K Coralife lamps we tested were such lamps. Both lamps had so much more light in the blue range than in any other range that they appear monochromatic. A true 20,000 K lamp, while still favoring the blue, would have more output in the red, yellow and green ranges. A true 10,000 K lamp would look similar, but would be somewhat less heavily weighted toward the blue.

___________________

A Poor Man’s 10,000 K Bulb:eyebrow:

Some time ago I observed that expensive, higher color temperature metal halide bulbs like the 10,000 Kelvin (K) and 20,000 K bulbs, produce less “photosynthetically active radiation” (PAR) than less expensive, lower temperature bulbs like the Japanese 6500 K and American 5000 K and 5500 K bulbs. My findings were outlined in an Aquarium Frontiers article (Harker 1997).

In spite of my findings, hobbyists have continued to use the higher temperature bulbs, in part for aesthetic reasons. The light from a 6500 K metal halide bulb is white with a blue tint, but over most tanks produces a slightly yellow look to the tank. This is due to yellowing compounds in the water. Higher temperature bulbs with their deeper blue light compensate for yellowed water producing a better looking tank.

Tom Frakes, writing in the Spring 1998 SeaScope speculated about the use of colored filters to meet the demands of reef hobbyists for blue tinted light. He wrote, “because white bulbs are less expensive than specialty bulbs, and less prone to color shift, the cost to replace them could be reduced significantly. The same level of the desirable blue light would still be available.” To test his theory, I re-examined several high and low temperature metal halide bulbs to see if there was any merit to Mr. Frakes' suggestions. A 250-watt Coralife 10,000 K metal halide bulb was compared to an Iwasaki 6500 K and Venture 5000 K metal halide bulb. With no filtering, the bulbs produced the following PAR:

Venture 5000 K produced 25.9 microEinsteins per square meter per second (µE/m2/sec) PAR

Iwasaki 6500 K produced 24.2 µE/m2/sec

Coralife 10,000 K produced 15.9 µE/m2/sec

A new Coralife 10,000 K bulb produces extremely blue colored light, much bluer light than the other two bulbs, but generates considerably less intense light. While the bulb is promoted as a “10,000 K” bulb, its actual color temperature is considerably higher. The color meter I use reads to 40,000 K, and yet the Coralife color exceeds the capacity of the instrument.

Filtering the Iwasaki and Venture bulbs with blue acrylic (#2218) reduced the intensity of the light, but also shifted the light toward the bluer end of the spectrum. Using blue acrylic the following light levels were generated:

Venture 5000 K = 20.5 µE/m2/sec

Iwasaki 6500 K = 20.3 µE/m2/sec

More importantly, the color shifted for both bulbs, to 10,400 K for the Iwasaki and 11,400 K for the Venture. In other words, with the use of a blue acrylic filter, both inexpensive bulbs became 10,000 K bulbs with PAR in excess of the 10,000 K bulb.

I also tried other filtering materials. Blue filters used in the movie industry come in a wide variety of colors. Rosco #62 (Booster Blue) used for such things as simulating night, shifted the color temperature of the Iwasaki to 13,300 K, even higher than the acrylic.

The evidence makes it clear that the use of filtering material enables a hobbyist to purchase inexpensive lower temperature metal halide bulbs and still gain the aesthetic benefits of higher temperature light. One note of caution, however. Metal halaide bulbs operate at very high temperatures and can melt filtering materials, such as acrylic if brought too close to the bulb. A hobbyist experimenting with filters must be very careful about keeping sufficient distance between the material and the bulb.

[Ian]

Dude I'd like to thanks you for the essay before i start reading tonight. need more time to read lah.

Hey Pet really thanks. I'll print it and bring it to work today.

Ian

[BarraCudaTM]

actually I have tried filters on FLs before as actinic bulbs are much more expensive

however a 6500K bulb under a blue filter cannot enhance the coral pigments to glow although it appears blue

[DragonGoby]

I finally got down to Eye Lighting today and got myself a set of Sakis! Bernard was really helpful, and it's been a great shopping experience. Just that the showroom was totally stuffy - I was sweating it out up there! <_< I wanted to get the 250W ones, but Bernard claims that these produce quite a substantial amount of UV - anyone can verify this? I thought that the SE Saki bulbs have UV shields on them!!

[Tanzy]

They do produce UV as glass doesn't absorb 100% of UV light. Dana Riddle did some measurements before and he found that a substantial amount of UV gets through.

[Ian]

I'll be going down to EYE lighting tomorrow to get 2 sets of 250W 6500K.

I'll also be using 2 4ft actinic bulbs, a few inches above the water level, I hope that it will help with the "yellow" 6500K bulbs.

Is this combination good?

[BarraCudaTM]

you would need much more actinic than that

[Tanzy]

I'll be going down to EYE lighting tomorrow to get 2 sets of 250W 6500K.

I'll also be using 2 4ft actinic bulbs, a few inches above the water level, I hope that it will help with the "yellow" 6500K bulbs.

Is this combination good?

It's not good! I know I don't like it.

Yellow, like this ------>

You'll need somewhere along the lines of 400W of actinic to tone it down to 10000K white.

Unless you like yellow...

[Ian]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!

Another dead end.

what about 2 X (150W 10k) 1 (150W 20K) 1 (40W actinic )

total 480W

How?

[TTBoy]

I had bad experience using 6500k. Besides the yellow color, it encourages algae bloom.

[Phang]

The 250W although yellow, creates the best growth in corals esp SPS.....

If you like, you can utilise it as light source for coral growth..... and add on other bulbs of higher kelvin to contribute to a more "ocean kind of look"....

Alternatively, you can also practice what some of us reefers do here..... on the Sakis on timer when you are not around... when you are back home, the Sakis switched off and you can enjoy your reef under the other recommended bulbs.....

That's what I do.....

Believe me, my SPS shows much better growth under the influence of the Sakis.......

TTBoy, it is noted that bulbs with light spectrum in the reds and yellows promote algae growth.... but if the source of fuelling algae growth is watched and maintained, algae blooms would be unlikely to establish themselves so quickly in reefs....

[robe]

If you want to see growth in your acros better put an Iwasaki otherwise buy 250w 10KK but pay more than double for it. In a test done in the States the highest PAR was put out by an AB10KK and the Iwasaki.

Balance the Iwasakis by putting in Radium 20KK bulb. Your corals also glow under Radiums lke actinic. If you put the bulbs closer they tend to merge the color together an comes out a nice white with a hint of blue. Between an Ushio 10KK I prefer the Radium Iwasaki combination. YOu still need a bit of actinic supplementation with 10KK bulbs to make it really white.

All radium is also too blue and not showing a good color tone but it depends on your preference. If you want a look closer to reef at 3 meter depth then the Iwasaki and Radium is the choice. IF you prefer a bluer look similar to deeper waters then the Radium is okay. For 10000K bulbs go for AB instead of Ushio. AB bulbs are whiter while Ushio are a bit yellowish too. Iwasakis aare greenish.