My 2 1/2 Tank

[nicholasloh]

If i could get my humbug out, i wont hesistae to sell that ######.

[terryansimon]

gee don't you learn? why are you still dead set against the idea of accepting criticism?

there you are saying that if you want fishes to be really happy, leave them in the ocean. pot calling kettle black. I bet the fishes, if they had minds and a vocal box, would be screaming at you to let them back into their natural habitat.

mandarins and scooter blennies? they are as different as an apple and a durian!

even AT has given you his words of wisdom, yet you just 'threw' it right back at him. it really says a lot when people like him take time off to give you advice. even southpaw.

before you come back with some scathing remark. take a look at the mirror boy. and see if we were right to be harsh with you. you seriously have a problem with the tank right now, hence many of your inhabitants are being killed/in the process of being killed now. little do you realise, you just keep replacing your livestock everytime one dies. and if it dies, you blame that poor damsel. since you have so much dedication to buy the fishes to replace the KIA *KILLED IN ACTION in case you don't know what it stands for, seeing how you don't even know what the heck MH stood for* fishes, why don't you channel that dedication into removing that damsel/damsels of yours instead? then maybe it'll solve your problems.

but more likely than not, it'll probably not. a bad workman always blames his tools. I think you should know that already by now.

my five cents.

[Dispar_Anthias]

now that i have flushed out my anger through my urine, i shall get back.

so, southpaw you cant really blame me for screaming at u the last time.

Note here, the 'mandrians' are actually scooter blennies i think. but they look like the mandrains body so i call it that lah. i just realised that they had caused some discomfort for you southpaw.

"Eg. Your seapen needs a deep sandbed to root itself in. A scattering of sand is also not going to provide enough food for your goldenhead/bluecheeked gobies"

Yes, the internet says that the gobies need lots of sand, but they can live without. plus now they are familiar with that sand pit, so they usually hang out there.

Sorry to sound like a pain-in -the-###### but if the crowding is the cause of stress that stops the fishes from eating, then why did my 'easily stressed and food picky' anthias eat?

I know about the care levels, that liveaquaria lists angels as moderate and cleaners as expert, but the anthias are also moderate wat? and my yellow wrasse is expert?

that doesnt really prove much.

sorry, maybe i have a different mindset; i will pursue something until i suceed. Sorry...

Sorry to add this but if you guys think that by keeping those fishes you are trying to 'preserve or keep a part of the ocean', i think you are all wrong. if you truely want a fish to be happy, it should be left in the ocean.

I'm sure you won't be happy that someone kidnapped you and sell you to a observation area in uranus for ppl to see.

Sorry, i didn't mean to be hash...

Guess you still dun learnt.... even boss here has advice you but you just wun heed anyone's advice...... Since you love to insist on your own ways we shall let you be.... Hmm I will try to keep track of how many sins you did by killing all those fishes Seriously i dun really pity you or your $$$ when your fishes die, in fact i pity those fishes that you kill Sorry i may sound harsh but to get you to your sense, we really dunno how to advice you

And if you really heed the advice from the reefers here(those giving correct info), your tank will go far and be very successful.... BTW you will also start to love SRC and once you go right and have a nice tank, ppl will stop giving negative remark but instead they will start admiring your reef...... Everyone start from scratch and leanrt, mistakeswill be commited here and there once in a while but you have to learn from them.....

Info given on liveaquria is most likely accurate(definately more accurate than what you learnt from your own tank) and thus only with proper reading will den allow you to have a very nice tank..... Yes sometimes we really want to have some fish but becuase of its natural diet or behavior let say too aggressive we have to forgo it for the peace of your tank inhabitant.... Pls dun defy mother nature and i think your tank will be better off..... try to take and accept info from net as they are after all given by doctors/ professional or people with more experience than you and I............

Okok enough of nagging... personally i do admire your determination but i seriously think that it is applied at wrong time...

So seriously, if you love fishes so much especially those wrasse and angel, go for bigger let say 4or 5feet FOWLR(fish only with live rocks) tank..... But if you love reef, you have to give up the idea on having lots of fishes unless you have a top notch skimmer and filtering system...... HOpe you bear this in mind

FYI i am a student and I myself start from scratch and i learnt lots of stuffs from the reefers here in SRC..... Some which i never knew till i join the forum

And finally pls stop adding fishes, no hawaii/ red sea cleaner wrasse is equally delicate compared to the indo- pacific common cleaner wrasse. Sggest you stop buying this kind of fishes as they will get you no where, just keep wasting your money and at the same time destroying mothers nature........

Next for your info... all angel are rated as not reef- safe, seriously there is none which can be a complete model-citizen in a reef tank....

[BFG]

hmm, since you know that some fish need moderate care and some need expert care, why do you bought them? You are just a beginner. You should start with fishes that are more hardy and can tolerate some discomfort. Start with 1 or 2 and stop at 4. It seems that you could surf the internet to find info but you want to use only part of the knowledge. Where is the reasoning in that? Yes, if you have the money, you can buy any fish that you want but the trick in this hobby is to prolong their life under YOUR care. Life is very, very precious, no matter it's a fish or you.

You are a 14 year old kid who has the luxury that can afford this hobby. Take it slowly and learn along the way. There are a lot of reefer here that can dispense advise freely to you without charging anything in return. Their only hope of giving you advise is that whatever live stock you are keeping or intending to keep will have a long life in your tank. Nobody here wanted to see dead fishes in their tank. So listen to them. This forum is for people like you to learn as much in order to maintain your own tank.

It can be very exciting seeing other members posting their beautiful tank with many live stock. But you got to be very realistic. Yours is only a 2.5ft tank. Don't try to compete with the other reefer here because what they have and what you have is very different. Also try to be courteous when replying. You mention somewhere that you are very good in English but your reply looks like you come from an Ah Beng taught school. Use whatever you have learn in school and apply it here. No need to use complicated words.

[Ancelot]

after reading all these threads and posts, i could not help to share a bit with you, nicholas.

FYI, i am a student too. This hobby is very expensive, not because of the LS i buy, but the equipments that i need to buy to maintain the tank. Honestly, after 3 major crashes and a lot of deaths, i do feel alittle guilty myself and decided that i get the proper equipment before venturing on. So i bought a better skimmer currently using Macro asf400 and well, i really happy to see that the tank is so much much more cleaner and the water is so much clearer and brighter! and also i got a sump now which up my total water volume. It really do my tank very well. Plus my tank is even smaller than yours just a 2ft tank. So if i can maintain such a good tank with just a sump and a skimmer, i think you can too, maybe just relocate your focus into getting better equipments before buying any more LS. I believe that its the equipments not the fishes nor the corals that makes this hobby so unique and me so proud of it!

And regarding to your urge of buying more and more lifestock, i say best strategy is endure! Everyone has the urge to buy the fishes they like in the marine shops, thats human nature. But think again, if you buy these fishes and put into your tank le, would they be happy? you dont buy because you want to buy, you buy cos you want to keep them and make their lifes worthwhile, even though they are just fishes to us. for me, i now only have 2 hector's gobies in the tank reason being my tank is small, just 2ft. Gobies, blennies all the small fishes are best for small tanks, just like sumos eat big bowls of rice we normal humans take small bowls of rice. A big fish needs a bigger pond while a smaller fish needs a smaller pond, this goes for fish tank. if yours is small buy those small fishes. if you manage to keep them alive, its still an achievement yeah? i think alot of people will admire this achievement just as much as roidan or AT or fuel or seahorse they keeping their black tangs, archilles tangs, reidi seahorses etc yeah?

"Achievement is never measured in quantity cos achievement never has an unit to measure! "

seahorse, we mean to do you good. You are young, there are alot of things in this hobby you have not learnt yet. Spend some time going to the lfs and stare at their tank and ask whats in their tank that makes your tank less significant compared to them? dont understand, ask! this hobby you got to ask and question. a successful homemade reef wont drop from the skies just like that. there must be a bit of sacrifices to be made.

anyway, i am hoping to see your tank becoming like AT's in the future. tis time take it as a lesson, do some reflections then back on track again to start it up. If i have failed 3 times in all to get what i get now, i think you can do it. Cut down the ls, sell them or give them back to the lfs and invest a bit on your equipments. FYI, a canister is not enough, maybe enough for a seahorse tank but not that on par for a reef tank. If you want go for a sump tank. its worth the money plus you got you dad to pay a bit for your expenses yeah? i too get my money but i think not as much as you cos my parents believe that the hobby is mine i got to work my way to keep it and not from them. So i think you should grab that opprtunity you have yeah?

anyway wish you best of luck and people, please dont rallied at him le.. cos hard words are never that well in passing a message. nicholas kambateh! ( means good luck in Japanese)

[Zero Oxygen]

when i was 14, only have money to buy those small plastic tank..... put bettas......gouromi.....tetras.... etc

where got money to try marine..... so damn expensive then.......

but then...... you are consider lucky to have the money to try for your age now....... but the way you restock, is a bit wasteful.....

just heed advices..... you will go a long way

[Kalib]

I think lets not try to convince him anymore. He's the expert, he's the pro, maybe we should listen to him

PS: Do the fishes a favour, sell them off to people who CAN take care of them.

[FuEl]

.......the point is that...your tank is TOO SMALL to support so many fishes. Is'nt it common sense that overcrowding will lead to unsanitary conditions and disease outbreaks? Did'nt you learn that in social studies!? What applies to humans can be basically applied to all other living things. Fishes need the space to swim, just like how we need the space to walk. Fishes need to have clean water, just like how we need to have clean air. Fishes need to have PRIVACY...just like us. Beggars will eat anything, so will badly starved anthias. But the point is that even if they are full, they will be subjected to other form of stress like territorial disputes. Does'nt it kind of remind you of the gang fights in Singapore in the early days? The people fought over territory, which is what is happening in your tank.

There is NO POINT in removing your humbug damsel...If you do not know the nature of the fishes you are keeping in the first place. Do you know a heirachy always exists in every tank? If you remove your damsel, the next aggressive fish will become the killer (my guess would be your strawberry basslet).

Why not just sell off all your fish...by doing so you'll be doing some good at least to your karma....Leave your tank empty for the time being and READ up on what fishes you plan to keep.....and how BIG they eventually will get. You'll be surprised how HUGE those bluecheeked sandshifter gobies of yours will grow to in the wild..but in your tank that should'nt be an issue..since they'll be cruelly stunted in your tank. Cleaner fishes and cleaner shrimp will NOT cure ICH. They will only help to remove sceptic tissue or larger ectoparasites like isopods. ICH is caused by stress, mainly due to OVERCROWDING and BAD water conditions!

If you can't listen to good adviCe, then I don't see why you should be fit to be a reefer. Why not just donate the money to charity. At least you'll be doing some GOOD.

[kschew1498]

I am impress with you guys' patience..... .

[FuEl]

I am impress with you guys' patience..... .

No choice but to say something..this fella is treating marine fish like guppies or tilapia..

[nicky30092002]

I am impress with you guys' patience..... .

Agreed!

All I can say is Mr. Nic Loh has character and determination but probably on the wrong track and wrong freq ..

Let's hope he understand ppl here all trying to help him .. not ENVYING wat he has instead.

[tigershark]

hi bro, your tank is only +- 30 gallons, it is consider a very small tank and the amount livestock must be well controlled. As per you 1st post, you mentioned that you ammonia, No2 & NO3 is maintain at 0. I think there is something wrong with the testkit or the way you use it, try to read the instruction again and do some testing.

So far, to maintain NO3 undetectable is almost a mission impossible for most newbies unless you have using an expansive oversize protein skimmer with superb chemical & biological filtration system + very regular & massive water changing, finally, understock you tank..... with all these pratice, you might be able to maintain your NO3 undetectable. I dun think you have pratice more than 2 of the above mentioned.... at least i dun see any good skimmer, no DSB, no refugium, no sump, funny SW colour..... nothing at all....

Frankly speaking, i myself didnt pratice all the above mentioned method due to financial restriction. but at least we could control the bioload in the tank by reducing the amount of livestock. Simple as that. You might ask what do i mean by reducing the bioload?

Your tank capacity should be enough to cater the bioload of 6" of fish. so you can keep either 2 adult clown or 4~5 pcs of small demsel.. how to obtain this figure? just remember 5 gallon of water for 1" of fish. since your tank is ard 30 gallon, then it you should keep less than 6" of fish(s). This is just a genaral guildline for newbie. There are expert out there who keep much more fishes than this limit and fishes are living happily for years but bear in mind that those are not only expert.... they are also loaded man where they invested thousand and thousand of $$$ in their filtration systems.....

hope my 2 cents helps....

[southpaw23]

Judging from the way this "boy" responded to AT's reply and the rest of us....i honestly think he's not going to learn....I find it hard to believe that if the Founder of SGReef club can take the time to browse your post and give you advice, that you, Nicholas, can be so arrogant as to refute his words.

Personally, i think we should leave this thread be and quit replies. There's no point in talking to the wall...sorry to say...whatever advice you can come up with, lil nicholas can have some time to come up with a rebuttal to it....so i really don't see a point.

Almost every single person that has replied to his thread has given some form of advice to Nicholas but if you re read through the thread, you'll see that NOT ONCE has he accepted any form of criticism whatsoever...always trying to come up with justifications for his actions.....so you know what....let that be....whether he believes in Karma or not.....sooner or later in this lifetime or the next, his attitute WILL catch up with him...unfortunately, now won't be the time.

This goes beyond reefkeeping but the lack of humility you have for a 14 year old is very disturbing....sure, confidence is good but taken to extremes isn't. But i won't border trying to give you advice on this as we all know there isn't a point to doing so.......

I vote to end this thread right here and now...what's the point in replying to his post if he's not open to constructive feedback.

[islander]

i have jus one word for tis boy...."fool"!

[Weapon_Master]

Yeah. To the stage I dont think anyone can intervene. Seeing such lengthly response from everyone and he still doesnt wake up!

Plain silly. Got too much $$$ dont know how to spend it wisely. Its not just about $$$ here but also being responsible!

Just like another James72 if I didnt remember wrongly.

[Zero Oxygen]

Well it is really sad to see how everyone respond to u....little boy.....

but what is the most disappointment i find is that you not only oblivious but defensive too

especially when you post this thread

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14819

you are just telling people how stubborn you are why questioning back

[Kalib]

What he should learn is to accept criticism and improve.

Its ok to make mistakes, noone is perfect.

[blacknails]

.......the point is that...your tank is TOO SMALL to support so many fishes. Is'nt it common sense that overcrowding will lead to unsanitary conditions and disease outbreaks? Did'nt you learn that in social studies!? What applies to humans can be basically applied to all other living things. Fishes need the space to swim, just like how we need the space to walk. Fishes need to have clean water, just like how we need to have clean air. Fishes need to have PRIVACY...just like us. Beggars will eat anything, so will badly starved anthias. But the point is that even if they are full, they will be subjected to other form of stress like territorial disputes. Does'nt it kind of remind you of the gang fights in Singapore in the early days? The people fought over territory, which is what is happening in your tank.

Dude... Using Social Studies as a parallel example to Reef Keeping... Awesome!!

Haha.. And cool Avatar too..

[ryz]

nicholas why bother posting your questions and queries or ask people for opinions when you dun listen and learn from them?? dun be too stubborn and mule-headed... if you do not trust the info given by fellow reefers, I suggest you read up on related books... I am a student myself(sec 4 now) and I feel that people just starting out on the reefing hobby with limited experience and knowledge(like yourself) should be more open to opinions and sugestions and not respond with hostility... from your posts I can tel that there are many aspects of reefing you are still unclear about.. I suggest you do ample research before you proceed on your endeavour.. Good luck

hope your attitude will change

[terryansimon]

I suggest we stop posting in this thread to let it die out naturally.

I'm not being mean and all, but I seriously do not see the point in helping some one when all I get in return is some nasty comments about me being a good samaritan.

let him be. and when the s*** hits the fan for him, then like they always say in the army, "don't make your problem my problem."

my two cents.

[Vinoth]

We are trying to help him by sharing our knowledge. But he feels in the otherway. I like the attitude of never give up till u succed. But its not applicable to all cases. In this case its really hurting to see so many casualities.

Bro nicolas..its not too late to be a responsibe reefer. Learn from other mistakes rather than you make the same mistake.

[Marineman]

Based on the poll on age, majority of the members are under 40 years old and unlikely to have a 14 year old boy, so you guys don't understand his mentality.

I have children over this age and I can understand them better. Boys at this age are beginning to become man, they start to grow taller and become more hairy, they don't LISTEN well, they have their OWN mindset, eventhough it is warped. A lot of parents have difficulty understanding 14 years old kids, they don't listen, they think they are the best, you older guys are behind time etc. they LISTEN to their PEERS, i.e. other 14 year olds. However this boy will change as he gets older and more mature.

On the other hand guys in their twenties and early thirties, I don't mean all of them, are more aggressive, impatient and also does not take criticism too kindly too, just an example, when you give advice to this 14 year old and he does not response well, you guys get angry and tak boleh tahan, this is natural, then you guys "whacked" him again and again and again, all joining the band wagon.

I suppose we all have to learn to give and take and IGNORE criticism to carry on. If you feel that the other party is not reponding well, just IGNORE him/her and get on to something else...there are more important things in LIFE, be happy!

[terryansimon]

which is why I suggested to move on. (=

by the way, I was only 14 years old 7 years ago.

[Ancelot]

but then a just reached 18 year old guy has given him his advice les le .. so i think he should better listen.. cos

i was 14..4 years ago..

[kschew1498]

Based on the poll on age, majority of the members are under 40 years old and unlikely to have a 14 year old boy, so you guys don't understand his mentality.

I have children over this age and I can understand them better. Boys at this age are beginning to become man, they start to grow taller and become more hairy, they don't LISTEN well, they have their OWN mindset, eventhough it is warped. A lot of parents have difficulty understanding 14 years old kids, they don't listen, they think they are the best, you older guys are behind time etc. they LISTEN to their PEERS, i.e. other 14 year olds. However this boy will change as he gets older and more mature.

On the other hand guys in their twenties and early thirties, I don't mean all of them, are more aggressive, impatient and also does not take criticism too kindly too, just an example, when you give advice to this 14 year old and he does not response well, you guys get angry and tak boleh tahan, this is natural, then you guys "whacked" him again and again and again, all joining the band wagon.

I suppose we all have to learn to give and take and IGNORE criticism to carry on. If you feel that the other party is not reponding well, just IGNORE him/her and get on to something else...there are more important things in LIFE, be happy!

Bro....well said....well written! Totally agreed! Come to think of it, when I was in my late 20s, I was still a follower! still in-mature! Man will grow wiser as ages catch up.....even now.....I am still learning.

A lucky guy will grow mature earlier if you does has a patience and wise mentor. An unlucky guy will probably takes longer and through tears and pain.

Well, let be more forgiving!

Once again well said Marineman!