Argonite Tank

[TanGo]

I am planning to get my 5 ft tank in time to come..

Was thinking about the setup..

Then I came across this idea..

Picture this, My 5 ft tank with a 3-4 ft refugium below.. Addition to that, a tank sitting between the Main tank and the Sump tank, containing a 6" Argonite Sand bed with some marine plants or kelp or greens... with slow water flow, maybe using syphoning techniques with air tubes or smaller tubes to reduce flow, and then trickling water into the sump.. Can I use this method to double up as a nitrate remover, ###### calcium reactor?

I mean, it's just an idea...

Will this work?

[hongqixian]

I am planning to get my 5 ft tank in time to come..

Was thinking about the setup..

Then I came across this idea..

Picture this, My 5 ft tank with a 3-4 ft refugium below.. Addition to that, a tank sitting between the Main tank and the Sump tank, containing a 6" Argonite Sand bed with some marine plants or kelp or greens... with slow water flow, maybe using syphoning techniques with air tubes or smaller tubes to reduce flow, and then trickling water into the sump.. Can I use this method to double up as a nitrate remover, ###### calcium reactor?

I mean, it's just an idea...

Will this work?

Can. But if you want an aragonite DSB then keep it only in the sump tank. It is more prone to disturbance in the main tank.

[Tanzy]

Do you know how much the aragonite sand for a 6" DSB in a 3-4' sump will cost?

[TanGo]

Do you know how much the aragonite sand for a 6" DSB in a 3-4' sump will cost?

I meant to put the argonite sand in another tank.. Maybe a 2ft tank.. Meaning total of 3 tanks, One main tank, a refugium, and an Argonite tank..

[Tanzy]

I think the refugium is the best place to put the DSB. Don't need another separate tank for DSB. More plumbing equal more leaks.

[TanGo]

I think the refugium is the best place to put the DSB. Don't need another separate tank for DSB. More plumbing equal more leaks.

So if I fill up the refugium with Argonite, then I can do without a calcium reactor?

[CKS]

Does everyone have a bigger than 55g refugium/sump here?

thats the minimum figure given by Dr Ron to have DSB working effectively

or does anyone have a working DSB setup on a smaller scale?

just wondering if my DSB on the 2ft is working or not.. coz ive huge bed of macroalgae too.

[woonming]

i heard Argonite is selling at $50plus for just 5kg

[Tanzy]

So if I fill up the refugium with Argonite, then I can do without a calcium reactor?

It's aragonite, not argonite. It's just a crystal of calcium carbonate and won't dissolve to release calcium at normal seawater pH. You'll still require some form of external calcium supplement.

[TanGo]

Thanks Tanzy..

Just read from a book...

Aragonite, the most soluble crystalline form of calcium carbonate, can be utilized in Monaco-style denitrifying sandbeds, as well as in a carbonate reactor. In either application, dissolution of the aragonite returns both calcium and carbonate ions to the water..

[hongqixian]

Thanks Tanzy..

Just read from a book...

Aragonite, the most soluble crystalline form of calcium carbonate, can be utilized in Monaco-style denitrifying sandbeds, as well as in a carbonate reactor. In either application, dissolution of the aragonite returns both calcium and carbonate ions to the water..

They dissolve only below pH 7 I think. Your tank would be dead by then.

#1 crushed coral sand is basically the same stuff and works the same. Coral skeletons are aragonite. Scrap the Caribsea ex stuff.

[Achilles Tang]

So if I fill up the refugium with Argonite, then I can do without a calcium reactor?

I think what most people don't realise is that for aragonite or coral chips or sand to release calcium and carbonate ions to the water, it has to be subjected to very low PH to dissolve them (like what a calcium reactor does using CO2). In a marine fishtank, as substrate, very low PH only occurs on the lowest level of the DSB.

If you use aragonite for its 'buffering capabilities', well.... pls read above!

[TanGo]

I think what most people don't realise is that for aragonite or coral chips or sand to release calcium and carbonate ions to the water, it has to be subjected to very low PH to dissolve them (like what a calcium reactor does using CO2). In a marine fishtank, as substrate, very low PH only occurs on the lowest level of the DSB.

If you use aragonite for its 'buffering capabilities', well.... pls read above!

Meaning to say, I can have DSB.. Probably.. say.. 8"? bottomost 5" is filled with Aragonite? Will it help?

[CKS]

not sure if the buffering capability will work

but 'no, the DSB will not work' would be the expected answer if u r gonna have the DSB in smaller than 55g tank

[TanGo]

not sure if the buffering capability will work

but 'no, the DSB will not work' would be the expected answer if u r gonna have the DSB in smaller than 55g tank

If put in main tank (5 x 2 x 2) and refugium (not decided yet) ? Minimum 6" DSB with bottom layer Aragonite?

[Tanzy]

Regardless of the thickness of DSB, it will not buffer the water significantly at normal seawater pH.

DSB works best around 6" of depth. Another thing to note is the size of the sand grains. They are suppose to be sugar fine size, close to mud like.

[CKS]

yea .. DSB would be great on 5 x 2 x 2,

Agree with tanzy on the 6" , not sure if theres a max threshold for the depth of DSB

Following information extracted from Feb issue of FAMA..

Chemical sink where diffusion of nutrients through them are influenced electrical charge. And the positive charges are attracted to negative charges. Accordingly, the water's surface and air above are a negative mV. In the bulk water of the aquarium there is many charged molecules. Much of it is a positive mV. So are most of the living biomass (Corals and fishes). Substrate surfaces are largely a negative mV. The deeper the bed, the more negative the bed would be, and more positive charged nutrients are naturally attracted to lower depths. In the DSB, unless there is sufficient and effective bioturbation, there could easily be accumulation of there nutrients as the most negative charge is the sand at the aquarium's bottom.

[onghm]

but 'no, the DSB will not work' would be the expected answer if u r gonna have the DSB in smaller than 55g tank

Hi CKS,

Does that mean we can forget about DSB in a 2 feet sump ( less than 55g) ?

Thanks

[CKS]

thats what the founder (Dr Ron) said

ive no idea, i do have DSB in a 2ft tank, but ive full bed of macroalgae too, so im not sure if my so called DSB is working or not. I do have air pockets & those black appearance bacterial living deep in the sand.

i believe it does work to some extend, but not efficient

maybe u wanna do a search in nano-reef.com

[onghm]

Thanks CKS

[Achilles Tang]

I never heard of a DSB not working in a small tank... can you point me to Dr Ron's article...

[CKS]

A recent post in RC actaully

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=147734

[onghm]

Came across the below on how aragonite sand release calcium into the water.

From "Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook" by Dr Robert J.Goldstein.......

Quote...

As high pH (8.1-8.4), highly oxygenated water diffuses into the sand, the oxygen is depleted by the infauna. The mostly aerobic infauna feed on the detritus from the reef corals and fish, stirring it into the sand as the infauna consume oxygen diffusing downward from the overlying water. Their metabolism releases carbon dioxide, water, and simple acids. The acids produced by decomposition immediately react with the carbonate of the aragonite sand, dissolving it and releasing calcium ions that now diffuse outward and upward back into the overlying aquarium water. The reaction is fastest at lower PH and accelerates in the deeper sands. With time, the sand becomes filled with life and dissolves, dropping up to an inch in depth per year in some cases. This PH-mediated release of calcium ions into the water may replace the calcium ion uptake by coral growth. At the least, aragonite sand calcium release reduces the need to make up the calcium deficit by addition of limewater.

In deeper parts of the sand, the oxygen concentration is low enough to allow developement of a large population of denitrifying bacteria. These bacteria complement those in the deeper pores of the live rock, often doubling the capacity of the aquarium to remove nitrates.

If the sand goes from microaerophilic (very low level of oxgen) to anoxic (no oxygen at all), acids and hydrogen sulfide gas will be produced, threatening the corals and fish. The sand should be deep enough to encourage denitrifying bacteria, but shallow enough that some oxygen can diffuse to all areas. With aragonite sand, the proper depth is 1-3 inches. Media other than aragonite will promote developement of denitrifiers, but not the aragonite's continuous calcium (and strontium) release into the water.

UnQuote...

Phew! Hope not too much typo.

Juz want to share with you all since this thread is about aragonite.

Ok, WAKE UP!

All stand and massage each other!

Sounds familiar

[Achilles Tang]

A recent post in RC actaully

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=147734

It was referring to a 10 gallon nano tank! LOL!

Of course a DSB in a 10 gallon tank wouldn't work... you can only keep a tortoise in the shallow water left!

[TanGo]

Came across the below on how aragonite sand release calcium into the water.

From "Marine Reef Aquarium Handbook" by Dr Robert J.Goldstein.......

Quote...

As high pH (8.1-8.4), highly oxygenated water diffuses into the sand, the oxygen is depleted by the infauna. The mostly aerobic infauna feed on the detritus from the reef corals and fish, stirring it into the sand as the infauna consume oxygen diffusing downward from the overlying water. Their metabolism releases carbon dioxide, water, and simple acids. The acids produced by decomposition immediately react with the carbonate of the aragonite sand, dissolving it and releasing calcium ions that now diffuse outward and upward back into the overlying aquarium water. The reaction is fastest at lower PH and accelerates in the deeper sands. With time, the sand becomes filled with life and dissolves, dropping up to an inch in depth per year in some cases. This PH-mediated release of calcium ions into the water may replace the calcium ion uptake by coral growth. At the least, aragonite sand calcium release reduces the need to make up the calcium deficit by addition of limewater.

In deeper parts of the sand, the oxygen concentration is low enough to allow developement of a large population of denitrifying bacteria. These bacteria complement those in the deeper pores of the live rock, often doubling the capacity of the aquarium to remove nitrates.

If the sand goes from microaerophilic (very low level of oxgen) to anoxic (no oxygen at all), acids and hydrogen sulfide gas will be produced, threatening the corals and fish. The sand should be deep enough to encourage denitrifying bacteria, but shallow enough that some oxygen can diffuse to all areas. With aragonite sand, the proper depth is 1-3 inches. Media other than aragonite will promote developement of denitrifiers, but not the aragonite's continuous calcium (and strontium) release into the water.

UnQuote...

Phew! Hope not too much typo.

Juz want to share with you all since this thread is about aragonite.

Ok, WAKE UP!

All stand and massage each other!

Sounds familiar

Meaning that I can have a 6" DSB with 3" No. 1 sand at the bottom and 3" of aragonite sand on top? and do without a calcium reactor????