Methods of reducing nutrients

[Eric]

Hi guys, would like to find out what are the methods you guys use to reduce or export excess nutrients in your tank?

How does nutrients and phosphate levels play apart in the colours of your corals?

Thanks,

Eric

[Fireclown]

Lesser nutrient in = Corals rely more on light to survive. The coral will therefore produce more zooathele (spelling?). Pls correct me if i'm wrong.

[Achilles Tang]

On the contrary, more zooxanthellae means that the SPS coral will look brown.

It means the zoox are actually taking in nutrients from the water instead. That is why SPS keepers need to keep pristine water quality by having as little dissolved organics as possible to see colours.

The colours are actually pigmentation to screen against excessive UV.

For SPS keeping, unless you control your phosphate right at the beginning with a good phosphate removal like Contraphos or Rowaphos to prevent phosphate from bonded to your substrate and rock surfaces, you will have enough phosphate that could be released for nuisance algae like cyanobacteria, GHA etc to overgrow and pose a problem for SPS.

Young tanks <1 yr old with still maturing DSBs/bio filtration will also face problems coping with nitrates effectively.

That is why people always say to only start keeping SPS beyond the 11 - 12 month onwards so you won't get frustrated when you see your SPS corals not doing well due to Young Tank Syndrome.

So control nitrates by water changes or just wait patiently for your DSB to mature, control feedings, bioload & overstocking. Use an oversized skimmer as they are more efficient to remove dissolved organics before they break down.

Control phosphates by the above means mentioned.

My 2 cents,

AT

[jd_n]

That is why people always say to only start keeping SPS beyond the 11 - 12 month onwards so you won't get frustrated when you see your SPS corals not doing well due to Young Tank Syndrome.

But there r always pple ard whom solely believe and hoping their 250W MH will color up sps in their new tank.

[Achilles Tang]

I know.... there are quite a few 'hopers' around....

My advice to spend money on a good skimmer or to remove heavy bioload usually goes unheeded. Instead you see more and more acros in their new tanks or the obsession over lights vs that lights.

If they don't get around to believing that lighting is secondary and spending more attention to things that matter like improving water quality, then let them enjoy the long wait & feel the frustration.

SPS keeping should be enjoyable but some reefers love to feel stressed up why they don't see any colours even after 8 months. And complain about cyano on the sandbed that doesn't go away.

It puzzles me but I guess everyone gets their kicks somehow and some other ways very differently from others.

I feel heartpain for their wallet when their acros die or all of them stay brown for a long time. Patience is a virtue and in reefkeeping, some should learn to tahan a bit.

[jd_n]

Haiz.........

[RAV-65]

Hmm... an educational thread this is... seems like i gotta go get my rowaphos liao.... to anticipate the increment in phosphate, but if there are not much dead water areas in the tank, would it help to keep deritus and phosphate down?

Vincent Ho

[Achilles Tang]

How does nutrients and phosphate levels play apart in the colours of your corals?

Thanks,

Eric

Forgot to add that phosphate is a direct enemy of calcification by inhibiting the process.

If your SPS corals don't calcify & grow, the growth tips where the brightest colours are always found will NEVER be seen.

Ie. You WON'T see any colours in your SPS.

[jd_n]

Hmm... an educational thread this is... seems like i gotta go get my rowaphos liao.... to anticipate the increment in phosphate, but if there are not much dead water areas in the tank, would it help to keep deritus and phosphate down?

Vincent Ho

Aren't ur tank still in the mist of cyclin or juz completed cyclin? = "Has Cyclin Started" thread. Either way, ur tank is being stocked up at a pretty fast rate. If ur tank r not fully cycled, u shd not have stock ur tank at all and if ur tank juz completed cycling....its being stocked up too fast. Slowly bro...

[RAV-65]

jd_n,

the no2 is down to zero, agree that i'm stocking a little fast, but basically transferring most of the things from my 2 feet tank.... had wanted to do it fast as it was too tedious to manage both tanks and the corals in my 2 feet kept blooming and stinging one another... it almost killed my octo branch, so decided to transfer everything and manage one tank...

Will stop the stocking for the time being for my new tank to mature...

Vincent Ho

[Fireclown]

I know.... there are quite a few 'hopers' around....

I think he's talking about me . Gonna dump my lights and go for water quality.

[AlfaRomeo]

But there r always pple ard whom solely believe and hoping their 250W MH will color up sps in their new tank.

I think this is directed at me :-).. oh well, its a good thing that I dont rely on just my 250w MH i guess.... Hope the 2 x 6100s and also the EV240 which is injected with ozone help with the water quality too. Rowaphos is also used as a control measure together with a bag of GAC.

Bioload is just 3 tiny fishes now.. 1 x 6line, 1 x rainfordi and 1 x Anthia.

Kalkwasser is being used as a top-up with a CR set at PH of 7.5. Monitoring how stable the calcium and Alk levels are now. Lots of calcerous algae growing in abundance all over the LR now.

Have only a monti cap since 2 weeks ago and noticed that its encrusting and spreading nicely tho i know its the easiest of the SPS to keep.

Anyway, dunt have any SPS in my tank currently and will wait for a few more months ... maybe... stocking up on LPS and softies for my 2 month old tank now...

Your expert advice and recommendations pls jdn? hope to learn from you and the rest of the SPS experts here on the finer points in getting my tank SPS-Ready.

Regards..

[jd_n]

Not targetin anybody Juz hope u guys tat r eager to go into sps to be on the right track.

IMHO, Take it slowly play ard with LPS first (they r juz as attractive, infact i still have some tat i can't bear to let go to move into full sps mode ) and in the meanwhile let ur tank esp DSB mature. Now is the time to play ard with ur CR so tat by then it has been fine tune by u to give u a pretty constant Ca and Alk for ur tank. If not, follow a timetable of dosing and note how much of addictives used so tat u can monitor and maintain the Ca, Alk and pH level u desired.

Wave maker and a good PS is a good investment and they do helps in providin better water movements in the tank as well as maintainin water quality but water changes r also a pretty good form of removin unwanted "stuffs" and at the same time replenishin supplements like trace elements etc (which we can't measure), this can be dn twice a mth else dosing of addictives will be necessary.

IMO, Rowa need to be replaced every 2mth or when u noticed any sign of phospate in ur tank. And it goes the same for Carbon too.

If really have the intention of going into sps in future, then better settle for the biggest tank and stick to it coz a upgrade of tank will result in sps casualities. I been thru tat phase, lots of RTN and those surviving turned brown stress i suppose.

U may also nd to scarifice on major rescapin of rockworks coz repositioning ur sps, disturbin ur DSB...will stress not only ur sps but also ur LS. The nxt thing u ever want will be seein ur favourite colony/ colonies RTN and spreadin.

Lastly lightin do play apart too therefore go for the 400W, pricing is not much of a difference from the 250W.....only the mthly PUB bills is and make sure chiller is able to maintain a constant desired temp.

Until ur tank matures, lots of effort nd to be put in like testin of water parameters, regular water changes, reading more....till then u will notice as ur tank matures the testing also gets lesser coz the "system has been up and runnin" This long period of patience is also a time to stock up ur ammo for quality products or rainy days.

[Achilles Tang]

LOL!! Guilty Conscience!!!

I never pin-pointed anyone!!

But since you confessed.........

Kidding guys.... don't take it to heart... just keep it in your heart!! Hahahaha!!!!

[Joe_P]

From my observations, the browning up of SPS has very little to do with water conditions.. it has a lot more to do with lightings…

Zooxanthellae development (which results in the browning of SPS) is jus simply the corals natural move to get more light esp when most reefs dun get that kind of light source as found in nature… ….. whereas the bright colours associated with them are shieldings against UV…

Done a test recently on my holding reef… placed a lavender purple stag into my reef but have a light source jus around 6 inches from the specimen… and the coral remained purple… in fact, the colours are simply brighter as time goes by….

And my holding reef is only 2 months old…..

Have been through quite numerous transplanting of SPS … and realize that the most important factor to survival rates has more to do with corals aclimitising to conditions as close as possible to the previous location…. Place a coral into a environment that does not match up in conditions…. RTN is experienced….

That is why even successful reefs sometimes still experience wild colonies RTN-ing even though conditions are good….

My 2 cts…..

(and “hopers”, pls dun use above statement of my holding reef being 2 months as licence)

[jd_n]

Hhaha....Joe, u gonna be the sinner. They gonna say if Joe can y can't we.

[Achilles Tang]

From my observations, the browning up of SPS has very little to do with water conditions.. it has a lot more to do with lightings…

Zooxanthellae development (which results in the browning of SPS) is jus simply the corals natural move to get more light esp when most reefs dun get that kind of light source as found in nature… ….. whereas the bright colours associated with them are shieldings against UV…

Done a test recently on my holding reef… placed a lavender purple stag into my reef but have a light source jus around 6 inches from the specimen… and the coral remained purple… in fact, the colours are simply brighter as time goes by….

And my holding reef is only 2 months old…..

Have been through quite numerous transplanting of SPS … and realize that the most important factor to survival rates has more to do with corals aclimitising to conditions as close as possible to the previous location…. Place a coral into a environment that does not match up in conditions…. RTN is experienced….

That is why even successful reefs sometimes still experience wild colonies RTN-ing even though conditions are good….

My 2 cts…..

(and “hopers”, pls dun use above statement of my holding reef being 2 months as licence)

From my observations, the browning up of SPS has very little to do with water conditions.. it has a lot more to do with lightings…

This statement is too general and a pitfall for newbies.

When you moved your corals out from your established tank into your shallow frag propagation tanks, they all turned brown right? Did they receive any less light? I think they were all brightly lit!

So what changed? Its mainly the water quality right?

Just because one frag still retained its colour doesn't mean anything. And if i am not wrong, that frag was the newest right? So it acclimatized well... compared to the rest who saw a drastic drop in water quality and turned brown.

RTN is a totally different thing from browning. A brown or coloured colony can be next to each other, one will RTN mysteriously regardless of the same conditions, the stressors are something else. We are not talking about survival of SPS here.

My 2 cents.

AT

[Joe_P]

When you moved your corals out from your established tank into your shallow frag propagation tanks, they all turned brown right? Did they receive any less light? I think they were all brightly lit!

So what changed? Its mainly the water quality right?

The colonies that brown up are actually new additions into my reef previously …. They had actually browned up in my 5 footer …. ( A few did show improvement in colours since being added into my holding rfeef under the new lightings... )

The ones that have been establish for some time in my reef previously did have a slight shift in colouration but have returned to their original colours and some have in fact have coloured up much better….

I however did lost a few to RTN and I would say that they are the result of different water conditions.

My 2 cts

[Joe_P]

This statement is too general and a pitfall for newbies. :pinch

Before we get into another miscommunication...

What I'm saying is that the colouring of a specimen has very little to do with the health of one....

You can have a healthy brown SPS ....

[Achilles Tang]

Yes, generally, a lack of sufficient lighting intensity would mean that corals would depend more on nutrient absorption to sustain itself and produce more zooxanthellae to aid in capturing as much light as it can.

But most of us know that keeping SPS corals in high nutrient-laden water is asking for trouble.

It is pointless to have excellent lighting but your water sucks.

Keeping a tank of pristine water quality is a struggle for most people and having a very good skimmer to export out nutrients before they have a chance to break down is still my most given advice to people.

[Achilles Tang]

Just my anedotal observations:

My lighting cycle is consistent... but when my GAC or Phosphate removal media becomes saturated, or when calcium or alk drops, my SPS corals will change colour.

It's the water, folks. Water husbandry first. Not lights.

[nutx]

Before we get into another miscommunication...

What I'm saying is that the colouring of a specimen has very little to do with the health of one....

You can have a healthy brown SPS ....

I think one reason to your success in your 2 mths old holding tank was the linking up of this new tank to the old 5ft. so water quality was not an issue at all, till the 2 tanks are separated.

[untouchables]

darn, looks like i need to spend my bonus on new skimmer liao... thot i can get away with easy sps using weipro ps and 250w 20k light.

[Joe_P]

I think one reason to your success in your 2 mths old holding tank was the linking up of this new tank to the old 5ft. so water quality was not an issue at all, till the 2 tanks are separated.

What you had previously witness is the 1st holdin reef...

A second holding reef was setup for the parent colonies and from that setup onwards, no link up were made... can't possibily run the entire setup cos the chiller would be overworked....

I wouldn't say that the acros in my holdin reef are doin excellent... they did fairly well mainly due to the following..

1) they had been aclimitised to reef conditions, quite a number colonies growth from frags and them being a few generations old.

the ones that perish due to RTN are mainly newer colonies (those that are less than a month old.....)

2) Minimal bioload

3) water of the holdin reef from previous main 5 footer???

I did built a compartment about 2.5 by 1 foot wide to house a 6 inch DSB.... but that would not be of much help till at least another 6-8 months time.....

[Eric]

What you had previously witness is the 1st holdin reef...

A second holding reef was setup for the parent colonies and from that setup onwards, no link up were made... can't possibily run the entire setup cos the chiller would be overworked....

I wouldn't say that the acros in my holdin reef are doin excellent... they did fairly well mainly due to the following..

1) they had been aclimitised to reef conditions, quite a number colonies growth from frags and them being a few generations old.

the ones that perish due to RTN are mainly newer colonies (those that are less than a month old.....)

2) Minimal bioload

3) water of the holdin reef from previous main 5 footer???

I did built a compartment about 2.5 by 1 foot wide to house a 6 inch DSB.... but that would not be of much help till at least another 6-8 months time.....

Thanks man! Lots of valuable info regarding SPS........appreciated!

Just measured my phosphate & nitrate, reads PO4 - 0.1mg/l & Nitrate 0mg/l without using any phosphate removing media. Is this amount acceptable for 300L tank or should I spend some money on rowaphos or biophos to bring the phosphate down to 0mg/l?