Which ULNS method?

[illumnae]

It's been about a year since I've switched from freshwater to marine fish keeping, and I've dabbled with keeping fowlr predator tanks to LPS tanks. This year has been marked with several failures and some small measure of success. I've finally convinced myself that I'm just simply not good enough to fulfil my initial plan of keeping 7 species of lionfish in a lionfish community tank (best I achieved was 5 or 6 species together before the tank crashed from white spot).

So moving on, I think I've learnt the basics of husbandry and the various theories of the hobby, and would now like to try setting up an sps dominated reef. I don't think I'm good enough to achieve success through the "just change water" method and would thus like to follow one of the established ULNS methods to try and increase my odds of success.

Having done some research, I've narrowed down to the following methods (with my cliff notes on each):

1. Zeovit - proven method that works; extensive support network; no real disclosure on how each product works, just what it does; many additional additives beyond basic 4, means eventually will get expensive and troublesome to maintain; currently only carried by 1 store, what happens if discontinued locally?

2. Fauna Marin Ultralith - similar system to zeovit; less complex than zeovit; more disclosure on contents but less online support network; less control than zeovit; convenient dosing of traces via 2 part, but will need 6 or 7 channels if dosing colour elements too

3. Polyplab Reef Resh- no need for reactor; slightly troublesome as 4 additives are dosed at different times of the day, some requiring Skimmer switched off; incomplete system that only reduces nutrients and needs to be paired with other products to increase colour; even less control over outcome

4. Prodibio - most convenient system, only dosing once every 2 weeks; least control over outcome; reputedly least effective of the 4; incomplete system that only reduces nutrients and needs to be paired with other products to increase colour; inflexible packaging leading to wastage

In relation to cost, I think the basic system of all are comparable, with zeovit being most expensive when moving to tweaking colours with extended range (polyplab and prodibio need to use other brands for this stage).

Can anyone else who's tried these systems long term share your experiences on effectiveness vs how troublesome to maintain vs cost? I need help to make a decision please!

Some details of the set up - it will be a fresh new from scratch system:

2×2×2 cube tank with beananimal overflow

Jebao 6000 return pump with return manifold (3× outlets) for chiller and 2× reactors

Aqua Illumination Hydra52 (supplement with 1 more unit or t5 if required)

Bubble Magus Curve 7 Skimmer

Maxspect Gyre 130 wavemaker

Aquaroche ceramic rock hardscape

Caribsea Bimini Pink substrate

[asg]

Bro... if your bio load is ultra low, your tank will be ultra low nutrients too... or just choose one of the established method you are comfortable to use then jump in lah.

For e.g. i cant use zeovit cos i need to travel overseas quite frequently

[patricklhc]

Bro... if your bio load is ultra low, your tank will be ultra low nutrients too... or just choose one of the established method you are comfortable to use then jump in lah.

For e.g. i cant use zeovit cos i need to travel overseas quite frequently

Andtsg are u sure about your statement "if your bioload is ultra low, your tank will be ultra low nutrient too" ? This is very misleading to reefer especially new reefers who just started this hobby.

U are a known joker in this forum however providing information like that as your usual nonsense is not acceptable

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[asg]

Andtsg are u sure about your statement "if your bioload is ultra low, your tank will be ultra low nutrient too" ? This is very misleading to reefer especially new reefers who just started this hobby.

U are a known joker in this forum however providing information like that as your usual nonsense is not acceptable

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If u keep one fish and one hermit crab and one coral in a ten feet tank, how would the bio load be high and how would the water be of high nutrient?

Bro, your comments make me start to believe that ah meng is a close relative of human... at least in your case loh...

[woyeng**]

I m impressed by TS who is able to make such a list of options with pros and cons...i think its a gd start.... I heard from a fellow reefer who uses the polylab product that emulates zeovit but requires less usage intensity and user activity, ie. Simply dose 4 products daily.

For me a lazy reefer, i use AIO and throw in some additives (e.g biodigest, reefbooster, color elements, goodbye po4) after weekly water change to have a 0.2 no3 environment.

So i suppose we can have many paths to the same goal where creating a low nutrient system is concerned.

Yes of course if one chooses to hv reduced lifestocks, that too helps with the process. Perhaps that is a reason why many sps dominated tanks hv mainly functional livestocks or small livestocks....

I know Andtsg personally and while i agree that he is really a humorous guy, i find his knowledge and willingness to experiment, explore and share his views openly to be a huge asset to the community.

He is a good guy

[ReDDeviLs]

Guys, we are happy to see such prompt reply from fellow reefers on sharing your knowledge. However we do not appreciate name callings and arguments. we are all grown ups and have to be responsible of our actions. Please help make this a better place and enjoy reefing.

[giantbicycle]

If u keep one fish and one hermit crab and one coral in a ten feet tank, how would the bio load be high and how would the water be of high nutrient?

Bro, your comments make me start to believe that ah meng is a close relative of human... at least in your case loh...

What if I can 1 lionfish 1 seafan in a ten feet tank but I feed them plankton and market prawn every minute? Is that low bioload high nutrient? Just curious...

[asg]

What if I can 1 lionfish 1 seafan in a ten feet tank but I feed them plankton and market prawn every minute? Is that low bioload high nutrient? Just curious...

Bro if u feed ur fish every min... u shall either read more books on feeding or start seeing a doctor...

[asg]

Guys, we are happy to see such prompt reply from fellow reefers on sharing your knowledge. However we do not appreciate name callings and arguments. we are all grown ups and have to be responsible of our actions. Please help make this a better place and enjoy reefing.

+1

[giantbicycle]

Bro if u feed ur fish every min... u shall either read more books on feeding or start seeing a doctor...

What about fishes like anthias and tangs that eat non stop? And newbies thought they hungry and keep feeding?

[asg]

What about fishes like anthias and tangs that eat non stop? And newbies thought they hungry and keep feeding?

Then the newbies either have to read up books on feeding or start seeing a doctor...

[woyeng**]

From what i know and understand...champion koi keepers feed their jumbo kois 7 to 12 times daily to speed up growth... But they also do daily water change despite having top of the line bio filtration and nutrient export systems....hence if u translate such feeding methods to the reefing scene, then i suppose we need to ask the same type of question as these champion koi keepers....

[giantbicycle]

Then the newbies either have to read up books on feeding or start seeing a doctor...

I can follow u on reading books although we do Google a lot more nowadays...

I don't understand how seeing the doctor helps in reefing though. Care to explain?

[asg]

I don't understand how seeing the doctor helps in reefing though. Care to explain?

Cos reefers will need to make some logical decisions... and doctor can help to assess whether a person is capable of making some logical decisions...

If u know a reefer who has his white light turn on 24/7 becos he thinks the coral is happier under white light, wont you advise him to read up on coral or seek medical helps...

[giantbicycle]

I think whether a question is logical or not depends on his understanding of the situation or have he experienced that particular situation or not.

I think a simple and specific explanation will do, instead of asking pple to go and see doctor. Not very nice la.

Like your friend Wongyeng who thinks you are a good person is able to come up with a nicely structured answer

Staying calm is important in Reefing too...

[woyeng**]

To TS......on the topic of lighting....since u oredi hv hydra 52 may i suggest u consider putting 2 more for a gd coverage of your 2x2 tank...i hv seen a fellow reefer with 2x2 tank having successful and gd coloration of his sps with 1 hydra 52 and 2 radion (oso 52 led per unit)... Prior to that ...i m personally disappointed by so many led lighted tanks where sps colors are dull as hell.... So the answer with led is actually with more led coverage..... If u use t5, you will hv no such issues...just my humble opinion and i mean well....

[patricklhc]

Wow wow slow down a bit!!! Don't get offended Giantbicycle. I don't know andtsg personally he is well know for being a joker like that bro wongyang say he really is a humorous guy. Try search within the forum and u will know. I personally like a post he started about changing sps color I had a good laugh that bring my stressful day away.

However andtsg we know u are putting it across over to another reefer in a hash way for their good so that they make an effort to read more to better understand what reefing is all about la but not all people can take your kind of approach.

I'm such what Giantbicycle mean about feeding fish every min is feeding the fishes constantly and not really feed the tank EVERY MIN.

Chill guys and happy reefing

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[woyeng**]

I think whether a question is logical or not depends on his understanding of the situation or have he experienced that particular situation or not.

I think a simple and specific explanation will do, instead of asking pple to go and see doctor. Not very nice la.

Like your friend Wongyeng who thinks you are a good person is able to come up with a nicely structured answer

Staying calm is important in Reefing too...

Bro giantbicycle,

Andrew is a good guy.

I think u need to understand why he said what he said in context of the question posed to him....

[Harlequinmania]

I think with due respect to the TS, we are not answering his questions on which ULNS is better and share our own point of view. Yes, we do have our preferred way of reefing, and there is no right or wrong. Maybe Patrick is just trying to tell people that there is a different between " low nutrient" system and "Ultra low nutrient system" which is a different thing .

However please respect other people too if you want others to respect you here, by calling people to see a doctor is definitely not a polite thing to do.

[skinbone]

In my honest opinion, referring to third post which coincidentally also by TS, it is obvious who the aggressor is. Not siding anyone. As an outsider, post #3 came across to me as bias and offensive.

[Harlequinmania]

No matter who is right or wrong, this is not a place for urguement. Please stick to the topic instead.

[tofubox]

ok, let me post some meaningful contributions. lol

I have used both zeovit full system and polyplab reef resh set.

Heres my opinion of both:

Zeovit

I really like this system, but with that said, user has to have really good experience still with keeping corals in the first place. Alot of the blue bottles work as mention, but not all are necessary or works like a miracle drug. You need to learn how to read your corals and dose accordingly. If you look at zeovit schedule, you will notice many of them recommend half or less dosage if combined with another product. Many times, I hear of reefers overdosing on zeovit, and having a nightmare. You also require dedication and commitment to using zeovit, i.e shaking your reactor, daily dosing of basic 4, coming out with a schedule for the rest of the products (and twerking as necessary).

The great thing about zeovit is that it actually works as mentioned, and proven on many many tanks. Plenty of support for those who are unsure what to dose. To be honest, zeovit isnt as expensive as it is. Infact, i feel i save alot of money after the switch to zeovit. Many of the blue bottles last me a long time due to the small amount of dosage required. The only things i buy on regular basis is: Zeobak ($24) - once every 3 months, Zeostone ($28)- Once every 2 Months. The rest last me pretty long. Its a big investment to start of zeovit, but u dont feel the pinch later on.

Not all the blue bottles are required. Myself? I currently only use the basic 4 + B Balance and coral vitaliser, and getting great results. I was using xtra, flatworm stop, biomate, coral snow, FM colour elements, zeofood7, AAHC, JOD at one point of time, but i have since ceased using all these. Use what you feel works best, not all tanks work the same.

Polyplab Reef resh

This system worked great on my nano tank, it was simple and straightforward. But honestly, if your tank is any larger than 2ft, I dont recommend u using this. It also wasn't the best solution to my nitrate problems, and had to further supplement with ALGONE pouches. But with that said, I had alot of success keeping sps as a newbie on this system. I feel PLUS and ACIDS work great and its difficult to overdose. The system alone does not allow you much control over colouration of the corals.

Again, I will not recommend this for large systems, as the cost of running might be higher than expected. It also lacks a lot of controllability over the other methods mentioned by TS

Lastly, I can't comment for the other two method, FM and Prodibio as I've not tried them before. Zeovit is still my favourite of all due to support and controllability.

To end it off, I must say that every individual tank system is unique. There is no two similar tanks. Reefer A can use the same products as Reefer B, but not acheive the same results. This is all because of logical reasons....bioload, water volume, frequency of feeding, shaking of reactor, flow through reactor, frequency of water change, quality of water parameters etc etc. Reefer A may keep 3 tangs (Example) and still acheive ULNS, but that doesnt mean reefer B with no tangs can achieve same results. Personally, i keep 10 anthias, 1 tang, 1 angel and satisfied with my coral colours.

[asg]

In my honest opinion, referring to third post which coincidentally also by TS, it is obvious who the aggressor is. Not siding anyone. As an outsider, post #3 came across to me as bias and offensive.

Sorry bro, i dont understand. Are you saying that patricklhc and TS are the same person?

[woyeng**]

I think with due respect to the TS, we are not answering his questions on which ULNS is better and share our own point of view. Yes, we do have our preferred way of reefing, and there is no right or wrong. Maybe Patrick is just trying to tell people that there is a different between " low nutrient" system and "Ultra low nutrient system" which is a different thing .

However please respect other people too if you want others to respect you here, by calling people to see a doctor is definitely not a polite thing to do.

Agreed.

Maybe patrick can enlighten us on his version of ulns...i m most interested to learn more...

[resser]

...You also require dedication and commitment to using zeovit, i.e shaking your reactor, daily dosing of basic 4, coming out with a schedule for the rest of the products (and twerking as necessary)...

I can't twerk in front of my tank, I have bad back. My kids would probably seek medical help if they see daddy twerking. I know you meant tweak, too much T & A swimming inside your head bro.

@Threadstarter

You listed all four carbon dosing methods (missing out on biopellets only). Dosing organic carbon carries inherent risks, a lot of manual labour (exception of biopellets), a lot of experience understanding what your tank is telling you.

I have not heard of anyone carbon dosing, NOT encountering cyanobacteria, strange tough brown hairy algae, and myraids of unexplained oddities. Only the severity varies.

Have you research old school all natural methods?