Low Ca & Mg

[alexcyf]

Hi all, I am experiencing low Ca at 370 and Mg at 1100. I have been trying to bring it up to optimum levels by dosing Ca and Mg at the maximum recommended amount everyday. However after diligently measuring the levels everyday with Salifert, there has been no significant raise in levels.

Any idea what's the issue here? Should I be looking at Strontium?

[patricklhc]

Bro share with us the details of how U dose your ca and mg time apart and how long after U dose to test and also What about your dkh ?

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[Silentlurker]

Also what test kits are you using??

[alexcyf]

I have been dosing Ca on my dosing pump. About 45 ml / 3 parts per day. Plus manual dosage, about 12grams per day. mg about 20grams per day manual dosage. This morning just raised to 60g. Not sure what's the effect gonna be like. Usually I test at 10pm at night . But I do additional tests about an hour or so after Manual dosing sometimes KH is at 8.0

All using Salifert test kits, earliest expiry only in 2016.. Some expired test kits really give crazy numbers in my experience..

[patricklhc]

I have been dosing Ca on my dosing pump. About 45 ml / 3 parts per day. Plus manual dosage, about 12grams per day. mg about 20grams per day manual dosage. This morning just raised to 60g. Not sure what's the effect gonna be like. Usually I test at 10pm at night . But I do additional tests about an hour or so after Manual dosing sometimes KH is at 8.0

All using Salifert test kits, earliest expiry only in 2016.. Some expired test kits really give crazy numbers in my experience..

Bro just to clarify further for better understanding.

45ml/ 3parts per day do U mean U dose 3 times a day using dosing pump?

Manual dosing of 12g per day. What did u dose? Ca liquid or CA SALT mix with rodi? and also at what time?

For me I test 2 hours after each dosing. And I dose only 1 at a time. Either MG, CA, KH. Usually I choose to increase MG first then follow by CA or KH depending on their reading. Don't ask me about how MG,CA and KH relationship works I got no idea just that I know my "rojak" method works haha

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[alexcyf]

Oh 15ml each dose 3 times a time using dosing pumps.

Manuals are using Ca salt, not liquid, in fact it's those Ca little balls from continum Ca at night abt say 9pm and Mg once in morning and once at 9pm. Does these timings matter? Cuz I test every now and then at different timings but I get the same results revolving no more than 0.1ml difference reading on the Salifert charts.

Mg should be first Cuz it helps maintain the alkanity right? If I'm not wrong if e mg is low, no matter how much u dose calcium also no use..

[patricklhc]

Oh 15ml each dose 3 times a time using dosing pumps.

Manuals are using Ca salt, not liquid, in fact it's those Ca little balls from continum Ca at night abt say 9pm and Mg once in morning and once at 9pm. Does these timings matter? Cuz I test every now and then at different timings but I get the same results revolving no more than 0.1ml difference reading on the Salifert charts.

Mg should be first Cuz it helps maintain the alkanity right? If I'm not wrong if e mg is low, no matter how much u dose calcium also no use..

Complicated!! Hehe can U like change all to dosing ? Instead of each dose 15ml U spilt 45ml into 24dose a day. Of set 2ml per hour 48ml a day?

Since using liquid ca, why still use manual salt?

Why u use dosing pump only for ca? Why don't use it for both mg and kh?

I don't know the relationship. But i always tune mg first then the other 2 ( 1 at a time, 2 hours or more interval)

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[alexcyf]

Well, from experience and other reefers, usually Ca don't need to split to small dosage as the flunctuations does not affect corals much. My kh is on dosing too. 80 ml split to 10 dose. Mg is the one that's not on dosing pump as I started dosing only for less than a week. I am trying to ensure that mg is on an ideal level before I put it on automatic dosing. Anyway, ca on dosing comes from the salt mix, same product too, dosing pump of Cuz must use liquid right.

Perhaps I can stop dosing ca on my pump first until I raise the ca through my manual dosing.

[patricklhc]

Well, from experience and other reefers, usually Ca don't need to split to small dosage as the flunctuations does not affect corals much. My kh is on dosing too. 80 ml split to 10 dose. Mg is the one that's not on dosing pump as I started dosing only for less than a week. I am trying to ensure that mg is on an ideal level before I put it on automatic dosing. Anyway, ca on dosing comes from the salt mix, same product too, dosing pump of Cuz must use liquid right.

Perhaps I can stop dosing ca on my pump first until I raise the ca through my manual dosing.

Are we able to change that ca dosing in as many as your dosing pump can spilt? Reason being regardless how much the fluctuation affect or don't affect the corals we aim to keep parameter as stable as we can.

If u don't mind following my method pm me your number. We do it step by step

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[bezz]

Mg should be first Cuz it helps maintain the alkanity right? If I'm not wrong if e mg is low, no matter how much u dose calcium also no use..

You are right about Mg stablising Ca. Depending on water volume, it takes alot of Mgcl2 to raise Mg by 100ppm. Use this calculator to estimate your dose:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/magnesiumcf.html

[alexcyf]

You are right about Mg stablising Ca. Depending on water volume, it takes alot of Mgcl2 to raise Mg by 100ppm. Use this calculator to estimate your dose:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/magnesiumcf.html

You are right about Mg stablising Ca. Depending on water volume, it takes alot of Mgcl2 to raise Mg by 100ppm. Use this calculator to estimate your dose:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/magnesiumcf.html

Thanks! But the link is not working

[alexcyf]

Are we able to change that ca dosing in as many as your dosing pump can spilt? Reason being regardless how much the fluctuation affect or don't affect the corals we aim to keep parameter as stable as we can.

If u don't mind following my method pm me your number. We do it step by step

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Thanks for your help but even so it doesn't explain why the calcium is not climbing. so if u are looking at stability. The parameters are pretty stable and consistently low

[bezz]

Try this link:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/chemcalccf.html

Mg stabilizes Ca and prevents Ca from precipitating in salt water. Not enough Mg, Ca will precipitate. Hence, I you are adding all your Ca at one go, (one of the possibility) is your Ca is precipitated soon after dosing.

Taken from this article by Dr Randy Holmes-Farley:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

Magnesium's primary importance is its interaction with the calcium and alkalinity balance in reef aquaria. Seawater and reef aquarium water are always supersaturated with calcium carbonate. That is, the solution's calcium and carbonate levels exceed the amount that the water can hold at equilibrium. How can that be? Magnesium is a big part of the answer. Whenever calcium carbonate begins to precipitate, magnesium binds to the growing surface of the calcium carbonate crystals. The magnesium effectively clogs the crystals' surface so that they no longer look like calcium carbonate, making them unable to attract more calcium and carbonate, so the precipitation stops. Without the magnesium, the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate would likely increase enough to prohibit the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity at natural levels.

For this reason, I suggest targeting the natural seawater concentration of magnesium: ~1285 ppm. For practical purposes, 1250-1350 ppm is fine, and levels slightly outside that range (1200-1400 ppm) are also likely acceptable. I would not suggest raising magnesium by more than 100 ppm per day, in case the magnesium supplement contains impurities. If you need to raise it by several hundred ppm, spreading the addition over several days will allow you to more accurately reach the target concentration, and might possibly allow the aquarium to handle any impurities that the supplement contains.

An aquarium's corals and coralline algae can deplete magnesium by incorporating it into their growing calcium carbonate skeletons. Many methods of supplementing calcium and alkalinity may not deliver enough magnesium to maintain it at a normal level. Settled limewater (kalkwasser), in particular, is quite deficient in magnesium. Consequently, magnesium should be measured occasionally, particularly if the aquarium's calcium and alkalinity levels seem difficult to maintain. Aquaria with excessive abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on objects such as heaters and pumps might suffer from low magnesium levels (along with high pH, calcium, and alkalinity).

[alexcyf]

Try this link:

http://reef.diesyst.com/cf/chemcalccf.html

Mg stabilizes Ca and prevents Ca from precipitating in salt water. Not enough Mg, Ca will precipitate. Hence, I you are adding all your Ca at one go, (one of the possibility) is your Ca is precipitated soon after dosing.

Taken from this article by Dr Randy Holmes-Farley:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

Magnesium's primary importance is its interaction with the calcium and alkalinity balance in reef aquaria. Seawater and reef aquarium water are always supersaturated with calcium carbonate. That is, the solution's calcium and carbonate levels exceed the amount that the water can hold at equilibrium. How can that be? Magnesium is a big part of the answer. Whenever calcium carbonate begins to precipitate, magnesium binds to the growing surface of the calcium carbonate crystals. The magnesium effectively clogs the crystals' surface so that they no longer look like calcium carbonate, making them unable to attract more calcium and carbonate, so the precipitation stops. Without the magnesium, the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of calcium carbonate would likely increase enough to prohibit the maintenance of calcium and alkalinity at natural levels.

For this reason, I suggest targeting the natural seawater concentration of magnesium: ~1285 ppm. For practical purposes, 1250-1350 ppm is fine, and levels slightly outside that range (1200-1400 ppm) are also likely acceptable. I would not suggest raising magnesium by more than 100 ppm per day, in case the magnesium supplement contains impurities. If you need to raise it by several hundred ppm, spreading the addition over several days will allow you to more accurately reach the target concentration, and might possibly allow the aquarium to handle any impurities that the supplement contains.

An aquarium's corals and coralline algae can deplete magnesium by incorporating it into their growing calcium carbonate skeletons. Many methods of supplementing calcium and alkalinity may not deliver enough magnesium to maintain it at a normal level. Settled limewater (kalkwasser), in particular, is quite deficient in magnesium. Consequently, magnesium should be measured occasionally, particularly if the aquarium's calcium and alkalinity levels seem difficult to maintain. Aquaria with excessive abiotic precipitation of calcium carbonate on objects such as heaters and pumps might suffer from low magnesium levels (along with high pH, calcium, and alkalinity).

Thanks! Think I am dosing too little magnesium.. I need to dose 1200 ml eventually to bring it back to 1300ppm