New to SW - Filtration

[ydolphin]

Hi folks, have been keeping fw fish for a long time and am finally venturing into sw. One question that I hope you guys can help is the question of canister filters. I can't help but compare with FW and noticed that canisters are not recommended for SW as they caused nitrate buildup (correct me if I'm wrong here) whereas for FW, the media type placed in there serves both mechanical and biological purposes. Question is why can't beneficial bacteria thrive in a canister used for a SW tank, unlike FW?

Edited December 3, 2014 by ydolphin

[asg]

Yes. You can use canister for both bio and mechanical filter. I am using caninster too. But 99% of the reefers use sump, more convenient to maintain and place equipment.

As for nitrate buildup, if you dont wash ur filter floss in ur sump, same build up can happen.

[xiggie]

Beneficial bacteria will thrive in the canister filter. But only aerobic bacteria which produce nitrates.if u are planning on keeping fish only in a salt water tank then it is no different from a freshwater tank. Nitrates will build up till u do water change And fish can tolerate high nitrate in the water.

The problem comes when u keep corals especially Sps which will not tolerate high nitrates and phosphate.

In order to remove nitrates and phosphate u will need some different sets of equipments/reactors/skimmers and all the other unsightly gadgets. So where do u place them ... In a sump...

Then If u ask why can't a canister filter remove nitrates and phosphate .. They can't cos the water flow in a canister filter is too fast and too oxygenated for anaerobic bacteria to trive.

[Shadow Walker]

My 2c, fw folks emphasize more on media while sw folks focus on equip. Although sump or canister are used, rarely sw folks will put huge amount of media in sump, instead they are more into direct nutrient export like cheato refugium, skimmers and reactors. Fw folks often you can see the sump only got one return pump and as much media they are able to put and afford as they are more dependent on beneficial bacterial.

[Ccccz]

Bro, I migrated from Fw to sw too.

Sump is a better route IMHO.

[ydolphin]

Thanks all for the replies ... Am using a canister as I converted my 3x2x2 tank which is without a sump and from what I read, it's a case of more maintenance to rinse out the wool.

For those on canisters, any change in the type of media from FW? Currently I have wool, biohome, eheim coarse wool and bio-rings within the 2 trays. Have to say that my water is quite murky though thus any input here on making it clearer will be much appreciated haha

Current fish in there are 4 x 4-6" garoupas, 2 x 4" mullets, 2 x 6" snappers and a flower crab ( all wild caught except the garoupas which I plan to reduce to 1 soon )

There is a sand bed plus a bit of live rocks, and a DIY skimmer (which i intend to change to a proper one in due course )

[RayL]

Microbacter 7 and algon pads might help to clear the water. Can be found at madpetz

[ydolphin]

Beneficial bacteria will thrive in the canister filter. But only aerobic bacteria which produce nitrates.if u are planning on keeping fish only in a salt water tank then it is no different from a freshwater tank. Nitrates will build up till u do water change And fish can tolerate high nitrate in the water.

The problem comes when u keep corals especially Sps which will not tolerate high nitrates and phosphate.

In order to remove nitrates and phosphate u will need some different sets of equipments/reactors/skimmers and all the other unsightly gadgets. So where do u place them ... In a sump...

Then If u ask why can't a canister filter remove nitrates and phosphate .. They can't cos the water flow in a canister filter is too fast and too oxygenated for anaerobic bacteria to trive.

No plans for corals as of yet .. more keen in fish from our coastal waters at the moment

If I get poison then will probably convert one of my other tanks, this time with a sump if space allows that is haha

[ydolphin]

Yes. You can use canister for both bio and mechanical filter. I am using caninster too. But 99% of the reefers use sump, more convenient to maintain and place equipment.

As for nitrate buildup, if you dont wash ur filter floss in ur sump, same build up can happen.

Bro, can share what type of media you have in your canister?

[ydolphin]

Microbacter 7 and algon pads might help to clear the water. Can be found at madpetz

Thanks, will go take a look. Was able to google what is Mircobater 7 but what about algon pads, couldn't dig out any info on the web. What does the latter do?

[asg]

Bro, can share what type of media you have in your canister?

Bio homme, eheim substrate pro, eheim biomech and normal filter wool. I also have two FR with bio sphere and NP bio pallets each.

Check out my thread, bro it is possible to have corals with caninster

[barnacle]

[barnacle]

Check this thread... He's using canister...

[xiggie]

Wow barnacle .. U linked us to a 10year old thread..!!

[SubzeroLT]

I also switched from freshwater to saltwater recently. Some thoughts :

- A canister filter should function just fine. The basic principles of mechanical & biological filtration are similar.

- A skimmer is for mechanical filtration to remove as much of the dirt before the water goes to the bio media. With a canister filter, you only have the wool to function as the mechanical filter. Hence the water is dirtier & nitrates in system build up quicker (since its not skimmed out).

- Bacteria can survive well in the media of the canister filter. Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle & hence proof that the bacteria is doing its work.

- In a FW planted tank with moderate load/fish, an acceptable practice is to change the wool monthly & rinse the bio media every 3-6 months.

- I feel that the bio load of & type of food fed in saltwater tend to foul the water quicker (eg frozen Mysis shrimps). Whether its canister filter or sump, the wool should be changed weekly & media rinsed monthly. In your case, one option is to have pre-filter canister containing wool only & another canister for bio media only may be an option to make wool changes easier.

- I use a canister filter for my quarantine tank. Works fine. I tested the water before. Ammonia & Nitrites = 0. Nitrates (end product of the nitrogen cycle) continue to increase as the days pass.

[ydolphin]

Bio homme, eheim substrate pro, eheim biomech and normal filter wool. I also have two FR with bio sphere and NP bio pallets each.

Check out my thread, bro it is possible to have corals with caninster

Thanks bro ... very encouraging to read this and your results, besides the other bros that have posted on their use of canisters

Am thinking if I should put more wool into my filter for the sake of achieving better water clarity ..

Edited December 4, 2014 by ydolphin

[asg]

Thanks bro ... very encouraging to read this and your results, besides the other bros that have posted on their use of canisters

No problem bro. I suggest u replace your bio ring with better media.

Filtration is just one part of reef equation, so you just need to read well plan well and stick to your plan.

[ydolphin]

I also switched from freshwater to saltwater recently. Some thoughts :

- A canister filter should function just fine. The basic principles of mechanical & biological filtration are similar.

- A skimmer is for mechanical filtration to remove as much of the dirt before the water goes to the bio media. With a canister filter, you only have the wool to function as the mechanical filter. Hence the water is dirtier & nitrates in system build up quicker (since its not skimmed out).

- Bacteria can survive well in the media of the canister filter. Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle & hence proof that the bacteria is doing its work.

- In a FW planted tank with moderate load/fish, an acceptable practice is to change the wool monthly & rinse the bio media every 3-6 months.

- I feel that the bio load of & type of food fed in saltwater tend to foul the water quicker (eg frozen Mysis shrimps). Whether its canister filter or sump, the wool should be changed weekly & media rinsed monthly. In your case, one option is to have pre-filter canister containing wool only & another canister for bio media only may be an option to make wool changes easier.

- I use a canister filter for my quarantine tank. Works fine. I tested the water before. Ammonia & Nitrites = 0. Nitrates (end product of the nitrogen cycle) continue to increase as the days pass.

Looks like I have to consider starting another filter filled with wool for mech.

Or should I have a protein skimmer instead?

[SubzeroLT]

A protein skimmer is one notch up in terms of mechanical filtration than just filter wool.

My suggestion is to add a skimmer in the system.

[ydolphin]

A protein skimmer is one notch up in terms of mechanical filtration than just filter wool.

My suggestion is to add a skimmer in the system.

Thanks bro ... will go hunt for an external skimmer. What are the better brands running around out there for ext protein skimmers? Any recommendations?

[SubzeroLT]

There are many brands mentioned in the forum. Skimz, Deltec, Bubble Magnus are some popular brands but these need a sump.

[ydolphin]

Have been seeing a few of them running around this forum but not many external ones .. haiz

How about the ocean free brand? Any idea on the reliability as one bro is selling his ext. skimmer

[asg]

Thanks bro ... will go hunt for an external skimmer. What are the better brands running around out there for ext protein skimmers? Any recommendations?

Tunze 9001/ 9004, renoma c, deltec. These are some of the bigger brands with hang on skimmer. Else pinnacle and ah beng also has some lesser know brands <$100.

[ydolphin]

Tunze 9001/ 9004, renoma c, deltec. These are some of the bigger brands with hang on skimmer. Else pinnacle and ah beng also has some lesser know brands <$100.

For the lesser known brands, guess they work just as well?

[asg]

For the lesser known brands, guess they work just as well?

Bro, how big is ur tank and what LS do u plan to keep?