DSB for 2 feet tank

[lenenkie]

Hi

Anyone does this for their nano tank to reduce nitrates? Seems very effective and cheap to reduce nitrates

Just wondering if anyone has a simple way to actually do this? Or any LFS that can help customise a simple system

Most methods require a pail filled with sand, holes drilled near its top and a pump to deliver the water from tank to the pail and back to the tank

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

All comments are welcome. Of course, there are many other methods, eg water change, skimmer, feed less, using filters like polyfoam, or additives like microbacter 7. However, it seems that this method is really good and self sustaining cause of the large population of DNB in the DSB

Cheers

[xiggie]

How deep does a DSB need to be again?

[dinGdinG]

Hi lenenkie, i have a 2 ft tank as well and i am having a sand bed or around 2.5 inches deep.

Before i first started, i had this question as well. But most of the information i found online says that it actually takes about 6 inches of sand bed to make it a DSB and its takes a ling long time to cultivate the bacteria that consumes nirates to turn it into nitrogen? If i rem correctly that is..

I am a newbie as well, i find that weekly 15% wc and a oversized skimmer plus polyp lab biospheres is doing the job well for me at the moment. Plus im overfeeding almost everyday.

Nirates have been at 10ppm for the past 3 days.

Just my humble feedback

[pcw]

For a DSB to work effectively, apart from the depth of sand, it has to have quite a large surface area too. I prefer to run algae scrubbers/chaeto. Less risk and more space efficient IMO.

[Guest]

For a small tank, maybe it is better and easier just to use biopallet to remove N03. You need space to have a DSB , and having a thick sand deep sand on the main display tank is not very pleasant to the eye lol.

[lenenkie]

I've started a DSB using a canister filter (atman) and filled it up with sand. Put it on low flow.

Will update if nitrates drop in a week or so. Last leading was API 40ppm. NH3 and NO2 was 0 ppm after cycling my 2 feet tank for 1 week plus ( had mature live rocks and dosed bacteria - hence levels dropped quickly)

I also added rowaphos. And thinking of activated carbon now...

[Edmund Koh]

That sounds like a good idea. I was thinking of using a canister filter as a biofilter holder to free up space in my sump. Shall see how.

[asg]

Bro, putting sand inside canister is dangerous ah, if for whatever reason the sand got suck thro the motor...

[lenenkie]

Well hopefully at low flow, only a bit of sand will get sucked in? :)

[asg]

I guess using the same space to hold bio media or AC/ GRO, you will get more benefit out of it. The reason we use caninster is that we want an enclosed space with high flow for whatever filteration we want to lah.

If your goal is to generate enough copepod for your tank, just fill FR with bio-sphere, i have quite a large population of copepod in my two FR.

[lenenkie]

Haha not really bro. Idea is not for copepods.

It's for the anaerobic DSB to remove nitrates. Like a nitrate absorber. Main idea is to create a self sustaining system. Anthony Calfo swears by it so should be quite reliable? Refer to link at start.

Low flow to allow just enough water to "interact" with the anaerobic bacteria to remove excess nitrates.

I thought its very natural and its how nature works... Instead of using biomaterials and other methods which have reported to hit and miss for many forum gurus.

I have another canister running some ceramic rings, bioballs and some small pieces of live rock with no foam.

Will report if it works... But judging from the forum thread I posted earlier, its pretty impressive and cheap. The sand only cost me $7! :)

[asg]

Haha not really bro. Idea is not for copepods.

It's for the anaerobic DSB to remove nitrates. Like a nitrate absorber. Main idea is to create a self sustaining system. Anthony Calfo swears by it so should be quite reliable? Refer to link at start.

Low flow to allow just enough water to "interact" with the anaerobic bacteria to remove excess nitrates.

I thought its very natural and its how nature works... Instead of using biomaterials and other methods which have reported to hit and miss for many forum gurus.

I have another canister running some ceramic rings, bioballs and some small pieces of live rock with no foam.

Will report if it works... But judging from the forum thread I posted earlier, its pretty impressive and cheap. The sand only cost me $7! :)

Bro you have to count the electricity bill for the caninster too. Anyway if we are talking about bateria surface area, no way sand can compare to biohomme which is also a setup and forget thing.

Furthermore, without any prefilter, you sand surface will be covered with debris.

[asg]

One last thing, most canister is designed such that water flow thro every inch of space inside, which means all your sand will be oxygened thus there wont be any anaerobic bateria...

Just my two cents of worth.

[Bunster]

It seems like you are building a fluidised sand bed filter? Think the portion of the sand that first comes into contact with oxygen rich water would be great for aerobic denitrifying bacteria. And if your flow is slow enough and the column of sand tall enough to totally deplete the oxygen from the water, then you can cultivate anaerobic bacteria that you need to break down nitrates. Would be interesting to see a pic of your setup and I guess we'll need some time to see how well it works. Cheers!

[lenenkie]

Thanks Bro. Will take ur suggestion to add a prefilter of sorts and maybe add some biohomme to my other filter if the nitrates dun show improvement

So far no debris in tank though. The low flow and the larger grain sand may play a part I think

The low flow within the canister which originates from the top motor may not allow the jet stream to actually penetrate the DSB fully...so there is hope =x

Cheers

[lenenkie]

It seems like you are building a fluidised sand bed filter? Think the portion of the sand that first comes into contact with oxygen rich water would be great for aerobic denitrifying bacteria. And if your flow is slow enough and the column of sand tall enough to totally deplete the oxygen from the water, then you can cultivate anaerobic bacteria that you need to break down nitrates. Would be interesting to see a pic of your setup and I guess we'll need some time to see how well it works. Cheers!

Yes bro. That's right! Its a modest set up. Learnt a lot from your tank as well before I set up mine

[Bunster]

oh thanks bro... I'm still a relative newbie compared to the other guys here... Always good to share and learn from each other. I've been using biohome too, I'm not sure how much more it contributes, but I guess it can't hurt.

[reef garden]

One last thing, most canister is designed such that water flow thro every inch of space inside, which means all your sand will be oxygened thus there wont be any anaerobic bateria...

Just my two cents of worth.

Bro Lincoln,

I agree with this bro and share the same concerns. The canisters are typically designed for a specific flow of water through the media to still achieve oxygenated water at the outlet end. For denitrification to take place, the flow has to be super slow to create an anaerobic condition for the colonization of nitrosomas bacteria to convert nitrates to nitrogen gas. I have my reservations that the reduction of flow through adjusting the lever would actually be able to achieve such super low flow. And I think the performance of the canister may also be compromised somewhat?

Anyway, I have tried a DSB of 4 inches of sand in my previous 1.5 feet aquarium. Whilst I often see lots of bubbles coming from the sand bed, presumably nitrogen gas from the conversion of nitrates, I don't find it effective enough to remove the high nitrates generated from my many fishes. In addition, there's always the concern of dead zones within the sand bed with the production of toxic hydrogen sulphide. Eventually I did away with this and relied on a combination of measures to control the nitrate and phosphates e.g. growing Chaetomorpha and Caulerpa in my sump for nutrient export.

It's just my one cent worth of comments.

[lenenkie]

Yeah main idea is cost savings and space savings. Just a 2 feet sumpless tank iith no refugium.

The Atman canister works by driving water down a column thru holes in its trays. By removing the trays and filling up with sand, I think I've effectively nerfed the canister to create circulation only at the top.

The bucket DSB can potentially cause crashes. I do not disagree but it has also proved extremely effective for some who used it.

Will report on my findings in a week or 2. Cheers and thanks for all the comments

[lenenkie]

Hi people. Just a quick update.

Just tested my water over the weekend.

pH 8.2

NH3 0

NO2 0

NO3 10

PO4 0,25 (API test kit, but I suspect its 0... probably switch to a more sensitive test kit like salifert? any suggestions)

KH 7

Ca > 520. (Been like this since the start. So far no precipitation problems and I expect it to drop once I add more corals, and will probably need to supplement)

I think its still kinda early to say that the canister DSB is working... still have nitrate readings currently... I also cheated =x. I added one packet of NP biopellets about 3 weeks ago as well... 1 week after I set up the DSB on the advice given above... Will continue to monitor and see if I can continue to move nitrate levels lower... But I think I use my magnet less frequently now to scrub algae =p

Thanks for your time

[lenenkie]

Hi people

Quick update

Been a month since december

Tested water today

Sg 1.025

Temp 26-27

Ph8

Nitrate 0 (api)

PO4 0 (salifert)

Kh 9

Ca 440

mg 1350

Pretty stable thus far for 2 weeks with daily dosing of polyplab one (1 cap of powder direct into D tank) and microbacter7 (5 drops a day)

Not sure if it is the DSB or the biosphere which kicked in to bring nitrates consistebtly down to zero for past month. But its a good result anyway

Thanks for your time

[lenenkie]

Btw. Anyone knows where to get polyplab one cheap?

Can pm me

Thanks

[lenenkie]

FTS =)

[sgtayc]

Hi lenenkie i read the thread and thot u r doing a test on dsb but u also add other nitrate export methods so u end up not knowing whether the dsb works or not. U have thot of gettinh nitrate up agsin and redo the testing?

[sgtayc]

Btw the guy from LFS told me that if both no3 and no4 is zero all corals will die off