Tank without DSB can survive?

[Asfur]

Domino, do u use good quality skimmer??

[jquek]

I agree with infinitereef, actually he implement the advance berlin method using a SSB about 1 inche, amazingly nitrification and denitrification happen at the depth at that range (about 1/2-1 inche), more than that depth will provide crash in long term.

Concern with what is said here. I am a newbie and my tank is currently cycling for about 1.5 weeks. I have about 2" of #1 sand bed. I know it doesn't qualify as a DSB but will this depth of sand bed cause any problems in the long term? Will the sand bed trap detritus and hence I might have a nitrate problem?

[Marineman]

Hi Guys

How abt if i have my DBS in Sump tank instead of Main Tank. any diffferent??? Anyway I find the look of having thick layer of sand in my tank, Ugly and waste of space. Dun u all think so?

There are successful tanks being kept with bare bottom for easy cleaning as long as you have a DSB refugium for filtration, The miracle mud system encourages bare bottom and Paletta gave a very good review on the ecosystem.

If you want to have a DSB, it is logical to keep inverts with a few fishes and have low nutirents otherwise the sand bed will turn yellow, red, brown with algae unless you are an expert and know how to balance the parameters.

The bottom line, the choice is YOURS.

[Achilles Tang]

Both that system is very success only with the inventor : Plenum by Dr. Jean Jaubert and DSB by Dr. Ron Shiemek, but many follower are fail copying thier system. So it is your decision which one do you want to choose.

Ron Shimek's DSB has failed him a year ago... and he blamed it on heavy metals and caused a following of people who feared the same thing and these people are the ones converting to BB. Funny how these are the ones who followed the trend of DSB in the beginning.

I think for the educated reefer to make up his mind... he has to learn the logic of how each method works, the pros and cons and then be convinced by it and then look after his reef tank properly after that.

Reefkeeping is not an absolute science but there are guidelines and there is logic to method. Don't be blind or hasty or jumpy and be blown here and there by rumours, hearsay, anecdotes because every reef system is cared for and setup differently.

DSBs, plenums, SSB, Berlin styled reef tanks are all known to crash. The only tank that won't crash is one without anything inside.

In a nutshell, I will summarize it as follows:

1. DSB/Plenums - properly setup with appropriately grained sand with a minimum depth of 4 to 6 inches, it will deal with ammonia to nitrites quickly in the short term and nitrates effectively in the mid to long term. Best biological system for NNR. Best for reef tanks as DSB microfauna will help process detritus and provide microplankton for the corals.

2. shallow sandbeds (SS) - purely aesthetics only. Not much biological function esp with regards to nitrates. In fact, the bigger grain the substrate, the higher the potential for more nitrates added to the system due to trapped detritus and other decomposing wastes. May require regular siphoning of detritus.

3. Bare bottom - zero biological filtration capacity. Requires frequent siphoning of detritus on a regular basis. More frequent water changes due to poorer biological filtration unable to cope with nutrient loads. Usually, there will be poor amounts of microfauna like copepods and worms in Berlin tanks that are good for cleaning off excess food & wastes.

My 2 cents.

AT

[Asfur]

Achilles Tang wrote :

I think for the educated reefer to make up his mind... he has to learn the logic of how each method works, the pros and cons and then be convinced by it and then look after his reef tank properly after that.

Reefkeeping is not an absolute science but there are guidelines and there is logic to method. Don't be blind or hasty or jumpy and be blown here and there by rumours, hearsay, anecdotes because every reef system is cared for and setup differently.

DSBs, plenums, SSB, Berlin styled reef tanks are all known to crash. The only tank that won't crash is one without anything inside.

Yes my friend achilles, i am very agree with your point above, and as my previous statement be4, that many kind of system will work well from the old crack method like UG filtration to the latest system like DSB/Plenum. That's why as a newbie, he must learn and search as much as information and choose the system that most suit their money, place, location, maintenance, etc.

Even i've been email several times to the 40 years of experience in marines (long be4 Julian Sprung enter this hobby), he still implement reverse UG filtration in his tank until now. His tank is setup in the latest of 70's, and his reverse UG system is last for about 25 years before the algae start to growth. After that he just re-setup like he did 25 years ago, and he said to me that this new setup will last for about the same period like be4. Amazing isn't it !!! He said : "Eventhough my system is prove to be last longer than every expert hobbist has nowadys (even Julian), but it doesn't mean that i more expert than them."

So after reading many system and sharing with many aquarist, i think the point is only 1. It is : NO MATTER WHICH METHOD WE USE, BUT WE MUST SURE TO BALANCE IMPORT-EXPORT IN OUR TANK. This is just my conclusion. May be right-may be wrong.

[patrick123]

Dear All,

I'm a newbie in Marine, but I have been keeping koi and other freshwater fish for years.

I agree with AT that the only tank that does not require maintenance is an empty tank. When we put it LS, it does not matter whether is fish or coral, waste will be excrete into the water and the system has to be able to process these waste. However, after a while, everything will start to build up and if you don't maintain it well, the system will crash one of these days....

So, this is my plan for my new 5ft system. I will only use 5mm of sand for the main tank for estatic reason. I will keep the DSB in the refugium. Before, the water is flow into the refugium, need to make sure that water pass through layers of cotton wool and coral chips to ensure that no solid waste goes into the refugium.

Like any working engine, the refugium needs maintenance once every few years. So what I'm thinking is that every 3 years, I will setup a temporary refugium with DSB, and slowly channel all the water to the new refugium over the period of several months. After that, I will wash the sand in the old refugium in salt water to remove/dilute all the heavy metal waste. After that, I will go through the next few months to slowly channel the water back from the temporary refugium back to the original refugium.

Anyone think whether this method will work?

Any comment is welcome.

Thanks,

Patrick