Tank without DSB can survive?

[patrick123]

I have to say it was very foolish of me to start the hobby without doing much research. After 2 months, I'm stuck with a 2ft tank without any DSB.

My tank is the one that sell at LFS where the filter is at the back of the tank. There is a surface skimmer and water flow into the filter compartment and pumped out.

My question is, can such a tank work for keeping Nemo and anemonie?

What about nitrate? Anyone has similar setup as me? How does it work for you?

Thanks,

Patrick

[arcanehacker]

You dun really need a DSB, although it is prefered due to nitrate build up. Esp with a 2 feet tank, it definitely doesn't have that depth.. unless your tank is sortta long kind (looks funny though). A DSB then in a 2 feet tank would be very funny.

You are not stucked though. You can still get a sump and make a DSB in it.

any setup can still support 'Nemo" or anemone.. but you need lights for the latter.

[islander]

I have to say it was very foolish of me to start the hobby without doing much research.  After 2 months, I'm stuck with a 2ft tank without any DSB.

My tank is the one that sell at LFS where the filter is at the back of the tank.  There is a surface skimmer and water flow into the filter compartment and pumped out.

My question is, can such a tank work for keeping Nemo and anemonie?

What about nitrate?  Anyone has similar setup as me?  How does it work for you?

Thanks,

Patrick

no dsb is not the problem for tank crashing there a lot of ppl here without dsb and without sump yet succeeded 99% with either sps or lps or.the key to their success is getting a lot of info and knowledge b4 setting up.u can take look at seahorse tank under member tank pics..

[patrick123]

The cabinet undernealth is very small, don't know if enough to put a sump. Also, anyone know if the DIY PVC siphon pipe is safe and will not leak everywhere? I have the tank in my home theater room and don't want to turn that into a swimming pool.

Cheers,

Patrick

[Golden Tooth]

The cabinet undernealth is very small, don't know if enough to put a sump. Also, anyone know if the DIY PVC siphon pipe is safe and will not leak everywhere? I have the tank in my home theater room and don't want to turn that into a swimming pool.

Cheers,

Patrick

I would juz suggest u to get a good skimmer.

[ben]

LOL, u were in the same case as my 1st setup. one anemone and 2 clowns. a 4kg lr only, LOL

now its different lots of lr, too much and still no dsb

[Infinitereef]

I don't want to start a debate here, but had been reading that recently, many tank with DSB crashed because of the build up in pollution. Those that have not are switching out their DSB for bare botton or very SSB.

I have SSB and vaccum it during water change. See no problem.

[Achilles Tang]

There are tanks with DSBs for more than 15 years with no crashes.

It's still a debate.. and even if you do away with a DSB, you still need to throw out all your LR because heavy metal pollutions will accumulate there eventually too...

And of course, you will struggle to deal with nitrates.

[ben]

but now my 5ft tank is having dsb cuz I want long term nnr. but havent really started to stock in, still cycling as no time to do .

[Infinitereef]

For my next tank, I may go bare bottom and let it covered with Pink/Red/Purple Coraline. Look pretty and save money.

For DSB, once a year, should top up your critters if not the diversity may dimenish and make your dsb not effective.

[FuEl]

I think DSB should not crash if they are left alone. Hydrogen sulphide diffusing out at a very slow rate should not lower your pH too much.

If DSBs were to crash, most likely is due to disturbance by the reefer or by larger burrowing organisms, releasing hydrogen sulphide in a large enough quantity to induce a pH drop in the main tank.

If you are worried of a DSB crashing your tank, you could go for a DSB in the sump. If anything goes wrong just disconnect the sump.

[Deep_Blue]

I have the tank in my home theater room and don't want to turn that into a swimming pool.

sorry.... but i would like to digress a little... will your lifestock get affected from the noise when you turn on your home theather system? with all the bass and noise coming from your speakers and woofers...

[patrick123]

1. Sorry, what is "sps" and "lps"? I'm still improving my vocabulary for marine abreviation.

2. I'm getting really confused now. Now I'm hearing that DSB is no good and should be removed, bioball is no good coz it produces nitrate, coral chip is no good for the same reason. So I should leave my filter compartment empty???

3. Has anyone have a similar setup and able to get nitrate under control without DSB?

Thanks,

Patrick

BTW, I don't think the noise from the home theater really bother the fish eventhough I never try to crank it up to full blast.

[hippo]

The cabinet undernealth is very small, don't know if enough to put a sump. Also, anyone know if the DIY PVC siphon pipe is safe and will not leak everywhere? I have the tank in my home theater room and don't want to turn that into a swimming pool.

Cheers,

Patrick

Check Ian"s webpage.He is also a member of SRC and he can help you. I think.

[Infinitereef]

Very sad, another 2 aquarist with DSB crashes. Read Reef Central and people are switching out their DSB for bare bottom or SSB. DSB is a pretty new idea for home aquarium started 7-8 years ago. A lot of people who go with it 5-6 years ago are seeing their Tank crash.

These are very experience Aquarist with great tank and some is even tank of the month.

DSB work in the ocean because the ocean is vastly bigger than our tank and the hurricane and storm will stirr up the sandbed frequently before it has the chance to build up the bad stuff. That obviously is too much work for aquarist to constantly mess with their aquascape. In the long run, DSB create more work than going SSB with good water flow and skimmer. Well, just my $0.02 opinion. I personally have SSB.

[patrick123]

Infinitereef,

How many inches is your SSB?

Cheers,

Patrick

[AlfaRomeo]

I am a newbie to this hobby too and have a tank which is only about 1 1/2 months old. Decided to go for a 2 inch bed and hopefully avoid the potential problems of the DSB. Currently nitrate is at around 10ppm and hope it will stay there as the LR matures and help in the process. I think having a good skimmer and good water circulation in the main tank is very important if you are w/o a DSB. Get the stuff out of the water as fast as possible IMHO.

[Achilles Tang]

I had more problems with tank stability when I had a SSB. It changed when I had a DSB.

I recommend newbies start off with a DSB to ease their husbandry tasks and big problems dealing with nitrates on a long term basis.

If you are a dedicated hobbyist and committed to numerous water changes and have invested in large amounts of LR, a very good skimmer, regular use of GAC... then by all means... bare bottom tanks aka Berlin-style can still work.

AT

[Asfur]

Hi, IMHO anybody can learn and make a decision which one is the most easiest maintenance for long run period. You may choose Berlin, DSB, Plenum even old style UG filter with great success as long as you do a balance import and export waste in your tank. About DSB and plenum, i discuss with few very expert aquarist (one of them are Mr. Greg Schiemer, he is a Julian Sprung very best friend), he doesn't said that DSB is totally wrong, but he said that Berlin Method is much more easy maintenance and easy to setup, which in DSB/Plenum is not easy to implement. Both that system is very success only with the inventor : Plenum by Dr. Jean Jaubert and DSB by Dr. Ron Shiemek, but many follower are fail copying thier system. So it is your decision which one do you want to choose.

[Golden Tooth]

I had more problems with tank stability when I had a SSB. It changed when I had a DSB.

I recommend newbies start off with a DSB to ease their husbandry tasks and big problems dealing with nitrates on a long term basis.

If you are a dedicated hobbyist and committed to numerous water changes and have invested in large amounts of LR, a very good skimmer, regular use of GAC... then by all means... bare bottom tanks aka Berlin-style can still work.

AT

Yup. That's the Berlin method. In addition, u need good circulation too. Anyway, nowadayz ppl go crazy on water changes n GAC usage no matter wat method they r using.

[charlie]

Hi

Talking about DSB and SSB, what happen if I were to introduce aragonite sand? will this help or will it be better than DSB or SSB?

[Infinitereef]

I have about 1" sandbed. Water circulation is as much important in SSB and DSB. Water circulation provide food for filter feeders no matter what sandbed you have.

The way I setup my PH is that the dead spot is easy for me to access. So I just vaccum out the detris on the same spot when I do water changes. The detris is always gather at the same spot due to the way my water current setup. Yes, still minor detris is fall into the cracks, but my worms will clear it for me.

After a while, water changes and cleaning my sandbed is very easy. Takes me 10mins from start to finish including filling the new water into the tank. Nitrate is always close to zero.

In fact, for newbies, DSB is harder to setup because you need to worried about the proper critters and live sand to make it work. Also, you want the DSB to mature first before you add livestocks and this proably need months. If not, the livestock will dirty your DSB and yet it will not process the detris well due to it immaturity. You end up with poor water quality as well.

For newbies, bare bottom is the easiest to maintain.

Either way, you still need patience.

[Asfur]

I agree with infinitereef, actually he implement the advance berlin method using a SSB about 1 inche, amazingly nitrification and denitrification happen at the depth at that range (about 1/2-1 inche), more than that depth will provide crash in long term. DSB or Plenum system is only best exclusively to kept invertebrate and very small and litle number of fish, this system is not suit for a "FISH TANK COLLECTOR", which keep many kind of species. Old style berlin method A.K.A Bare Bottomare no longer use this day, Julian along with Palleta and Delbeek still stick with the more stable system using modern upgrade berlin method system using SSB like infinitereef implement in his tank.

[Domino]

I'm a beginner and actually follow the Palleta methods. I have SSb< 1" and siphon it during water changes. According to Palleta, the Nitrates are removed by the organisms in deeper layers the LR were oxygen is lower. He recommeds roughly one 1kg LR/Gal. Currently I have a 4x1.5x1.5 tank. NH3 and NO2 are 0 and stable NO3 at 10ppm. Tank has been running two months with cured LR and I've got 5 Chromis in there.

True enough as AT points it out, my only worry are the NO3... It is somehow difficult to beleive that the "inside" of a few kg of LR can be equivalent to a 4" DSB.

Does the LR have to mature too just like a DSB to hadle the NO3?

[kouz]

Hi Guys

How abt if i have my DBS in Sump tank instead of Main Tank. any diffferent??? Anyway I find the look of having thick layer of sand in my tank, Ugly and waste of space. Dun u all think so?