Water change

[james72]

Oh if its a fowlr then its ok without water change I guess. Any dsb?

Cheers,

James

[dragon1188]

Have a 4in plenum ...ie its a dsb with void at bottom. Was popular in early 2000 as improvement to dsb. Popularised by Bob Goeman.

[dragon1188]

DSB and plenum has a common flaw is that it can only reduce nitrates but not Phosphate.

Algae scrubber removes both.

My plenum is just a white elephant nowadays but maybe still useful for critters to breed.

[Bulldozer]

+2 .... Logical Drift ...

[kenyee]

My moldy 12 years old tank with 2yrs old water n mostly 10yrs old fishes except for the butterflies which are 1 yr old

20140607_211549.jpg

Nice tank n fishes..salute bro..10years of sand look?..

[[V]tEc]

My moldy 12 years old tank with 2yrs old water n mostly 10yrs old fishes except for the butterflies which are 1 yr old

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=214429]20140607_211549.jpg

See your purple tang fade till damn jialet. For 10 yrs old, your fishes look small.

[[V]tEc]

There is a big diff in thriving and suriving.

[dragon1188]

Yes my purple tang has lost its color compared to 2002 when I got it from my friend.

It is also losing its eye sight. It sometimes cannot see food in front n also much slower in grabbing food.

On other hand blue tang which is 13yrs old is still having solid color n super fast eat like pig n fat n playful. I had a naso same age as blue tang but passed away 3 yrs ago. Also the pair of clowns which are 10yrs old. Solid color n still laying eggs every 2 or 3 mths.

I m not sure what is the lifespan of of tangs n clowns.

BTW my fishes has no health issues.

Only some broken fins from occasion fighting.

[kenyee]

Yes my purple tang has lost its color compared to 2002 when I got it from my friend.

It is also losing its eye sight. It sometimes cannot see food in front n also much slower in grabbing food.

On other hand blue tang which is 13yrs old is still having solid color n super fast eat like pig n fat n playful. I had a naso same age as blue tang but passed away 3 yrs ago. Also the pair of clowns which are 10yrs old. Solid color n still laying eggs every 2 or 3 mths.

I m not sure what is the lifespan of of tangs n clowns.

Bro, 13yo blue tang when u buy that time is what size? What's ur tank size?..I m asking this coz ur blue tang don't look big..for info, my 2yo blue tang grow from 2" to 6" now, does that mean he won't grow anymore in my Tank?..

Btw, what equipments u r having n running to keep ur water stable?

Hope to see video of ur tank..

[dragon1188]

Bro kenyee.

My blue tang was 1.5in when I bought it on 2 jan 2001. Its now abt 6in.

During 2001 to 2009 I didn't feed too much as I was having problem with water quality. Ever since I use algae scrubber I started to feed heavily from 2011.

I think size very much depend on quality n quantity of food and also how much space for them to move around.

My tank is 4ft. I doubt a 6ft will make much difference compared to ocean. So are our pellet food..inferior compared to live food in ocean. If you watch documentary u can see tangs are feeding non stop.

Their digestion system is quite short n inefficient. Thats why tangs need feeding constantly...n also poo so often.

I used to collect live seaweed every mth during low tide for my tangs at punggol beach. Nowadays just can't have time :-(

Also punggol beach is totally destroyed ecologically compared to 2002. No more seaweed. So sad.

[kenyee]

Bro kenyee.

My blue tang was 1.5in when I bought it on 2 jan 2001. Its now abt 6in.

During 2001 to 2009 I didn't feed too much as I was having problem with water quality. Ever since I use algae scrubber I started to feed heavily from 2011.

I think size very much depend on quality n quantity of food and also how much space for them to move around.

My tank is 4ft. I doubt a 6ft will make much difference compared to ocean. So are our pellet food..inferior compared to live food in ocean. If you watch documentary u can see tangs are feeding non stop.

Their digestion system is quite short n inefficient. Thats why tangs need feeding constantly...n also poo so often.

I used to collect live seaweed every mth during low tide for my tangs at punggol beach. Nowadays just can't have time :-(

Also punggol beach is totally destroyed ecologically compared to 2002. No more seaweed. So sad.

Thanks bro for the explanation..I agreed that tank can't compare with ocean but we will try our best to let them live healthy, feeding them well, make more swimming space by not overload the tank & good rockscape..make them feel exclusive n the special 1 in our tank as in ocean, they r in a school n the stronger will survive..tangs in ocean can see that they r always feeding..they eat each other poo too..their body is very round n fat..I hope my tangs n angels will grow big n fat under my care n be the special 1

4ft to 6ft do make a difference of swimming room..I know a Reefer who keep a sohal tang from 4" to 9" in his 6ft tank in 2yrs time..

Actually I feel that pellets r more nutritious as being man-make thus contain more vitamin n essences..

Overall, maintaining good water quality is essential for reefing..good luck to all cheers n reefing

[miketbh]

reference to earlier talks ......

Clean tank again without changing water .

day 0 before clean - yellow and dirty

day 1 filter wool only - clean and yellowish

day 2 filter wool and carbon - clear but cloudy (no pic)

day 3 filter wool and carbon - still slight cloudy (no pic)

day 4 filter wool and carbon - clear crystal

Actually picture attached still cant show how clear water becomes compare to the real time. .

[kenyee]

reference to earlier talks ......

Clean tank again without changing water .

day 0 before clean - yellow and dirty

day 1 filter wool only - clean and yellowish

day 2 filter wool and carbon - clear but cloudy (no pic)

day 3 filter wool and carbon - still slight cloudy (no pic)

day 4 filter wool and carbon - clear crystal

Actually picture attached still cant show how clear water becomes compare to the real time. .

Imho, water quality can b seen by its clarity alone..crystal clear water doesn't mean water is clean..the behavior of ur fishes n corals will tell though..cheers & happy reefing

[miketbh]

I wouldnt bet those water are unclean .

Would you still feel otherwise if it goes through those water test kits.

[kenyee]

I wouldnt bet those water are unclean .

Would you still feel otherwise if it goes through those water test kits.

Its not to bet anything bro..livestock health in long run is the upmost piority here..its really up to individual n I m just sharing my experience of regretting for assuming water being clear is clean but...... *sad

Ok this aside, good luck bro & hope ur livestock will thrive yea

[Avrilovigne]

I'm totally bemused here. Water change is a must for any type of aquarium. Can't imagine living in your own poo.

[miketbh]

Looking at fishes behavior is not useful. They seem always happy. Even before cleaning in those dirty water which accumulated two months of phosphate and nitrate dirts.

Seem like you would doubt in scientific test also , after worrying what is tangible (visual ). The force is strong in you !

Permit me to ask further ..... how clean is the water we drink? If science tells us these are a billion years old , as old as age of earth is born, will we then think it is dirty now and think better dont drink it ?

Actually if you think a little more about the 'worry ' (ie clear water is still unclean) and realise that i am doing nothing abnormal ( ie filtering with wool and carbon ) then you should sense that this same 'worry' will also is present to all hobbhist doing standard water change which varies, mostly at 30% . The same 'problem' appears elsewhere too , just over a longer period of time.

Lets say that there is 10% unclean substance present in my crystal clear water this time . And lets assume all fish will flip

when it reaches 100% . Therefore my 8 month old water will have 40% of such now . And so in another 5,6 water change all my fishes will flip.

Then let us put the same theory into a 30% water change in the rest of tanks and this unclean substance too will be there except cap at 7% . In about 15 time or 2.5 year, a tank's short lifetime, this substance will hit 100% and all fish in the rest of tanks will flip too. And the only way to overcome such is to have a periodic 'reset' of 100% water change.

I believe no hobbyist ever mention such or heard give such 'advice '. Therefore this is unlikely to be happening. Contrary there is lots of 'no water change' theory from hobbyist already around long ago .

[miketbh]

I'm totally bemused here. Water change is a must for any type of aquarium. Can't imagine living in your own poo.

Brother , we are not living in it only, We are eating it too ! organically or via newater .

hahaha...

[I love angel]

What is the purpose of water change?

To dilute the concentration of toxic materials or substances in the water.

What is the purpose of carbon?

To absorb the "toxic" materials in the water.

Both looks the same purpose...

But......

carbon absorb what toxic materials? All? Or certain type? i do not know.

If certain type, then we have problem correct?

Do carbon absorb good "toxic: material ?

Yes, means good elements that found in the sea water is absorbed . Sea water are not freshwater, freshwater only h2o. Sea water contains salts and other elements.

[I love angel]

Does test kits test all elements? No, so it does not show the condition of the water.

It only test certain elements...

Test kits is a judge to decide that the water may have problem.

Note i only say "may". Not 100% telling the condition of the water.

[kenyee]

Healthy fish or sick fish behave n look differently..happy or not I dunnoe as they dun smile n talk

To water change or not & reefing successfully really depend on a lot of factors..bioload is a major factor (fishes: quantity & size), not forgetting the cost of livestock at stake..for a big tank with heavy bioload, I believe water change will b easier than sucking the whole tank bed with rock scape in place..like what bro I love angel have say make it more to water change..I wouldn't say no water change can't work as there r indeed successful reefing with no water change..

[miketbh]

What is the purpose of water change?

To dilute the concentration of toxic materials or substances in the water.

,,,,,,

Would you still believe there is toxic material (unknown and untestable) or agree these are insignificant if fishes can live in such water for like 3 years ?

Such are clinical testing especially required in medical field .

Clinical testing is still done when we mix packaged sea-salt and tap water to form saltwater for tank. But nobody question or interested in the result anymore.

[I love angel]

Would you still beltimestampe is toxic material (unknown and untestable) or agree these are insignificant if fishes can live in such water for like 3 years ? Such are clinical testing especially required in medical field . Clinical testing is still done when we mix packaged sea-salt and tap water to form saltwater for tank. But nobody question or interested in the result anymore.

frankly speaking everyone have their own style of keeping fish, as long as the fish is healthy not dieing . That method is correct and workable. I also have my way of keeping fish.... maybe that is why everyone have their own trade secret.

[miketbh]

Ok, i been wondering since, how could millions of saltwater keeper have miss the 'perfect' water ? After all i am just doing normal wool filtering with some carbon , plus too fed-up with mixing salt into water carrying and pouring them around.

So i get the API nitrate and phosphate test kit just now to test my crystal clear water is good .

HOLY SHIT ! The nitrate and phosphate level both busted out of color bars to compare with ! It is more then 160 and 10 !!

So science have spoken......bro Kenyee's earlier suggestion is right . Toxication could come in any day since these chemicals will only increase.

Ok i also tested the sample clear water from that fish shop where i got the test kit. Their nitrate level also burst off 160 and their phosphate is 3. That would mean that likely the fish shop never do water change, or their whatever filtration never worked . Fishes, shrimp there looks fine , some corals looks fine some not.

Amen!

[kenyee]

Bro miketbh, I think better to get another testkit to test..I can lend u my salifert no3 testkit if u want ..compare the difference yea..I dun test anymore, maybe test once in a blue moon..the most importance is watch ur fishes behavior, eg. Their breathing pace, feeding pattern, swim pattern, body & fins condition, etc.. I have heard from LFS that fish can adapt to poor water condition aka high no3 etc and survive but if add New fish, they will die and might affect the old fish then..anyway, good luck to all reefers yea