Newbie starting a reef tank

[macmania]

Hi All,

I'm a newbie with a tank of ranchus and recently been lured by the salty side of reef tanks...

Intend to shift my ranchus to the bottom tier and use the top tier of my 2-tier 3ft rack to setup a 3ft reef tank.

Intention:

- some corals/fishes for beginner,

Some limitations:

1) sumpless

2) max 3ft (L) x 1.5ft ( x 1.5ft or more (H)

3) no chiller

Qns:

1) getting a 10mm glass tank as my current tank is only 6mm. Is this a good buy?

http://freshnmarine.com.sg/estore/product_info.php?products_id=803

2) which HOB skimmer would you recommend?

3) for 3ft tank which lights (LED/T5) would you recommend?

4) Is Vortech Mp10 good for 3ft tank?

5) Eventually I will love to have a Achilles Tang. Is there some pre-requites for the setting up of the tank?

6) What other equipment do i need?

Aiming to keep it under $1.5K. Is it realistic?

Thanks in advance ....

[JoeyBabooey]

Intention:

- some corals/fishes for beginner,

Some limitations:

1) sumpless

- Not an issue if you are planning to get hang-on-back skimmers and perhaps a canister filter. This is what i am operating on now and so far so good. only have to deal with higher nitrate levels

produced by the canister filter. Of course having a sump is always a plus in saltwater.

2) max 3ft (L) x 1.5ft ( x 1.5ft or more (H)

- People would usually recommend wider width and shorter height. i only hear wider width is best for better aquascaping opportunities and more room for fish to swim.

Would not go taller because maintenance will be a nightmare over time if too high AND your lighting has to be stronger to penetrate to the bottom.

3) no chiller

- depends on what kind of corals you want to keep. Some have to be kept in cooler, stable conditions. Not likely an issue if the water can maintain below 28 to 29 degrees celcius without too much fluctuation. You could get away with the more hardy corals. using a fan might not be too economical then because of too high a water volume for the fan to work, therefore causing high evaporation rates for nothing. PERHAPS could work if you turn on aircon at night and morning time, turn on the fan.

Qns:

1) getting a 10mm glass tank as my current tank is only 6mm. Is this a good buy?

- definitely 10mm glass with bracing. At least. you might want to get quotes from other tank makers as well. Might be cheaper. make sure you mention the tank is for marine.

2) which HOB skimmer would you recommend?

- There are quite a few brands out there. Tunze and Deltec make great HOB skimmers. I am personally using a Reef Octopus HOB skimmer and i am very happy with it. Especially for the price. Note that you cannot use HOB if you have bracing.

Different brands have different styles (In-tank or actually hanging on the back). Just look out for the rated water volume.

3) for 3ft tank which lights (LED/T5) would you recommend?

- Both are proven to be great methods of lighting your tank. Again, it depends on what corals you want to keep. I am currently keeping LPS/Softies and Bird nest SPS on cheap 4 tube Aquazonic T5 lighting. Decent lighting because its a small 2ft tank. Bigger tank = more T5 tubes = expensive T5 fixtures = might as well invest in good LED. My new 3 footer is coming soon and i have gotten the Maxpect 160w Razor. a lot of senior reefers here are using this lightset and have good reviews if you want to keep a decent amount of coral. Check out E.shine LED system brought in by East Ocean Aquatic. One of the sponsors here. Looks very promising.

4) Is Vortech Mp10 good for 3ft tank?

- I personally have not used the MP10 before but i like tunze's range of controllable wavemakers slightly cheaper and so far works well for me. The difference between sizes depends on the corals you are keeping.

5) Eventually I will love to have a Achilles Tang. Is there some pre-requites for the setting up of the tank?

- I am not really a tang person. I find them a little intimidating for me to keep them. Im sure the more senior reefers here can give their input.

6) What other equipment do i need?

- I think you are okay as of now? reliable Test kits are important too so don't leave those out. mainly just need to watch phosphate and nitrate levels and if too high, be prepared to have to do something about them. You can look up the different ways to reduce those levels. Some cheaper solutions than others.

Aiming to keep it under $1.5K. Is it realistic?

- I feel you definitely can make it under your budget..

Hey bro, i am by no means a very experienced reefer or a senior one at that. but i would like to offer you my 2 cents of what i have learnt and experienced. Would be great for more senior reefers here to give their input and provide more ideas for your new setup. I hope i have helped.

[Land2013]

It's recommended to start off with smaller tank like 2ft until u confirm will venture into saltwater. Tank above 3ft is better with proper marine system else you will waste a lot of $$$$ by then u want to upgrade. Freshwater n saltwater set up is totally different as it's more demanding. Read more before decide.

[Clement Chen]

It's recommended to start off with smaller tank like 2ft until u confirm will venture into saltwater. Tank above 3ft better with proper marine system else you will waste a lot of $$$$ by then u want to upgrade. Freshwater n saltwater set up is totally different as it's more demanding. Read more before decide.

It's recommended to start off with smaller tank like 2ft until u confirm will venture into saltwater. Tank above 3ft is better with proper marine system else you will waste a lot of $$$$ by then u want to upgrade. Freshwater n saltwater set up is totally different as it's more demanding. Read more before decide.

Agreed think would be better for 3ft to have sump. Got more space to have macro algae, run reactors etc.and easier for upgrade. Later u spend so much on a sumpless tank den want upgrade will have to remake

[MrSalty]

hi bro, welcome to this exciting hobby

as I had tried to convert sumpless freshwater tank to marine before (tank crashed eventually), like to share my 2 cents worth:

1) no sump - you will need canister filter - can be very tedious / messy to service when you have salt water. & may become a pain to do weekly maintenance after the initial excitement died down

2) hang on skimmers - can be a challenge if you have bracing on your current fish tank

3) Aquazonic T5 was good enough for many LPS, no problem when I was keeping my prata, cynarina & torch Needs stronger lighting for more challenging corals

4) I am using the jebao Wp 25 now - so far so good, comes in different programmes too

5) Other eqpt - depending what you want to keep, may have to consider getting FRs as no refugium, but need to consider where to place these

6) test kits - if you are planning to keep LPS / SPS in future - bought many Salifert test kits (NO2/ NO3/ Calcium / Magneisum / KH / PO4)

not to be discouraging, with so many equipment hanging around, it may disturb the beauty of a marine tank that we want to achieve. then will spend another big amount to upgrade - that's what happened to me.

do think of the other option of getting a tank with sump. To keep in the 1.5k budget, you can look at the pasar malam section where reefers are selling their tanks / equipment.

[SeahSengYong]

I think sump is very important for a marine tank from all I read in the forum.

Sump can hide the equipments and easier to add additive to the water.

It comes with many advantages for marine setup.

Chiller will also be good, as it will curb the temperture changes over the day.

Initially I also thought of going without a chiller due to the running costs, but when I think of the coral cost, I went with a chiller.

And it proves me right.

What I have learnt here; the setup is very important for a start, and you can save lot of money.

Welcome to this hobby!

[carfyx]

Agree with MrSalty ,

Going sumpless means you must be dedicated to husbandry work such as water change and guarding your water parameter.

If you staying near LFS, you can do these with ease as i'm staying near Sealife where i get my Sea Salt mixed water every 2 weeks.

You might want to think through ur livestock that you desired to have and then commit yourself whether you should to go sumpless.

I will recommend you to get Caribsea live sand and QUALITY cured live rocks and dose good bacteria daily using addictive . ( I not a Caribsea promoter )

Reason being is with strong and good foundation you will have or able to withstand problems you might handle in the future and it shortens cycling period which is proven for my tank but i waited 1 month to purchase 2nd hand Maxspect LED ,Tunze Wavemaker, HOB Skimmer and cycle for 3 weeks to put in first set of livestock ( Clean Up Crew ).

For my tank i setup less than $600 ( exclude livestock ) if you willing to wait for the right price in pasar malam section.

Patience is the Key !

Be responsible and not buying on impulse .

All the Best !

[macmania]

Thanks for reply fellow reefers. Trying to digest everything here, more qns:

7) If I go sump can I still stick to the tank in qn1 and use a overflow box?

http://freshnmarine.com.sg/estore/product_info.php?products_id=803

I am not keen on custom-made bcos of the higher prices.

8) where to get cheap and QUALITY cured live rocks?

Thanks...

[carfyx]

For Live Rocks you can try getting from the reefers here. Theres a couple of reefer selling live rock due to decomm or rescape .
Alternative, you can get from Coral Farm (West) or Iwarna (East).
If they are too far for you, you can find MarineLife or Sealife. Do call and check the price of Live Rock / KG. Due rock from different location = different price. Big farms are normally cheaper due to bulk purchase.

Bundle your order, means the more item ( plan your equipments and items like additives , filter pump , lights , sand , rock etc) u getting from a shop the more u can bargain for lower price ( Similar to Fresh n Marine customer Loyalty points). Look at Pasar Malam as alternatives too .

Use this opportunity to make friends with the LFS owners. Thats how you will get to their mailing or contact list when their shipment comes

Hope these tips helps !

[JoeyBabooey]

Definitely take your time to digest, understand, plan and slowly put into action.

Thanks for reply fellow reefers. Trying to digest everything here, more qns:

7) If I go sump can I still stick to the tank in qn1 and use a overflow box?

http://freshnmarine.com.sg/estore/product_info.php?products_id=803

I am not keen on custom-made bcos of the higher prices.

- Custom made tanks does not mean more expensive bro. Does not hurt to ask around =) The tank you are intending to get has Euro-bracing. Which is not viable to fit an overflow box.

I have not used overflow box before but I understand that you need to pay extra attention to the piping. There are reefers here who has DIY-ed their piping. maybe you can search around and get their advice.

8) where to get cheap and QUALITY cured live rocks?

- to be honest, 'Quality' live rock is not cheap. I have bought $5/kg and $15/kg live rock before. I second what bro carfyx has mentioned. I believe the difference in price is where the rocks are from. From experience, it will never be fully cured when you put in your tank. Personally, just select live rock that looks best for your scape and slowly stock up. There will be bacteria die-offs and you still need to go through your cycling process and better yet, get rid of pests by doing hyersalinity or freshwater dips. I personally stick to dry rock as i have a phobia of live rock. Visit those LFS mentioned above or check out those closest to you..

Feel free to PM me if you need a ride to go check out those LFS... more the merrier. So hopefully can get better pricing from the LFS too if more people buy

[macmania]

- Custom made tanks does not mean more expensive bro. Does not hurt to ask around =)

Hi JoeyBabooey,

Any cheap and good tank maker vendors to recommend?

[JoeyBabooey]

Hi JoeyBabooey,

Any cheap and good tank maker vendors to recommend?

Hey bro,

You can look for SGBros/TankJunction and N30 on the net. I have made tanks with these guys before and I had good experiences. Pricing is also competitive. The 5 year warranty is also there for a piece of mind.

http://www.tankjunction.sg/ and http://n30.com.sg/

I would also suggest Vincent of Aquarium Artist. One of the sponsors here. You can contact him at 9695 9086. He specializes in marine setups.

[Fukcable Fcuker]

Hi JoeyBabooey,

Any cheap and good tank maker vendors to recommend?

I got one from Havelock. They selling cheap and good looking tank

[macmania]

I got one from Havelock. They selling cheap and good looking tank

Hi Jay,

Do you have the shop name? Can PM me the price and size?

Thanks.

[kohanson]

I will also recommend Vincent from Aquarium Artist. He will give you good advise if you are new in this hobby.

[macmania]

I will also recommend Vincent from Aquarium Artist. He will give you good advise if you are new in this hobby.

Thanks bro...

[macmania]

It's recommended to start off with smaller tank like 2ft until u confirm will venture into saltwater. Tank above 3ft is better with proper marine system else you will waste a lot of $$$$ by then u want to upgrade. Freshwater n saltwater set up is totally different as it's more demanding. Read more before decide.

I thought it is always good to buy the biggest tank you can afford... 2ft seems like too small to me. Correct me if I am wrong bros...

[carfyx]

The reason for 2 feet or less it costs less to setup ( especially equipment )
If you have a 3 feet or 4 -
1st ) Efficient skimmer to skim that volume of water .
2) lighting - you need lighting to cover that footprint or area of the tank.
3) wavemaker - to ensure flow to in all areas ( 1 is insufficient )
4) the equipment to replenish water due to evaporation . 2 feet tank 60 litre , WC for 10% is 6 litre . Imagine 100 l , 200 l ? You sure can carry that huge amount of salt water every week ?
5) tank - more water means more weight and salt water has higher density . Means your tank has to be of quality to withstand.

6) In order to hide these equipment and ugly cabling = you need a sump + cabinet .

Last but not least - bigger tank = bigger fish , bigger coral - or many fishes many corals . = More $

From these list - u can calculate the cost vs cost of nano tanks

[carfyx]

FINALLY - you need a lot of time and effort to fight a war. ( Simply ask you -If you are fighting a war ( hair algae, diatom , isopod ) Conquer Singapore( 2ft and less) easier or USA (3 ft , 4 ft , 5ft) ?

Just a metaphor

[macmania]

The reason for 2 feet or less it costs less to setup ( especially equipment )

If you have a 3 feet or 4 -

1st ) Efficient skimmer to skim that volume of water .

2) lighting - you need lighting to cover that footprint or area of the tank.

3) wavemaker - to ensure flow to in all areas ( 1 is insufficient )

4) the equipment to replenish water due to evaporation . 2 feet tank 60 litre , WC for 10% is 6 litre . Imagine 100 l , 200 l ? You sure can carry that huge amount of salt water every week ?

5) tank - more water means more weight and salt water has higher density . Means your tank has to be of quality to withstand.

6) In order to hide these equipment and ugly cabling = you need a sump + cabinet .

Last but not least - bigger tank = bigger fish , bigger coral - or many fishes many corals . = More $

From these list - u can calculate the cost vs cost of nano tanks

Thanks for the enlightenment...

[Martian]

For Live Rocks you can try getting from the reefers here. Theres a couple of reefer selling live rock due to decomm or rescape . Alternative, you can get from Coral Farm (West) or Iwarna (East). If they are too far for you, you can find MarineLife or Sealife. Do call and check the price of Live Rock / KG. Due rock from different location = different price. Big farms are normally cheaper due to bulk purchase. Bundle your order, means the more item ( plan your equipments and items like additives , filter pump , lights , sand , rock etc) u getting from a shop the more u can bargain for lower price ( Similar to Fresh n Marine customer Loyalty points). Look at Pasar Malam as alternatives too . Use this opportunity to make friends with the LFS owners. Thats how you will get to their mailing or contact list when their shipment comes Hope these tips helps !

You can also get LR from Ah Beng in Pasir Ris... I think he is one of the cheapest other than getting from follow reefers going decomm...

[Fukcable Fcuker]

Go to China town , http://www.yelp.com.sg/biz/wong-loy-kee-aquarium-store-singapore

They got sell live rock

[Martian]

Go to China town , http://www.yelp.com.sg/biz/wong-loy-kee-aquarium-store-singapore'>http://www.yelp.com.sg/biz/wong-loy-kee-aquarium-store-singapore They got sell live rock

They have very limited stock for Marine fish...