Some recent catches.... Old Woman Angelfish

[Narcosis1]

Hi All I am new to this forum and I am located in South Africa, I thought I would just post some pictures of some recent catches. This is the Old Woman Angelfish. Enjoy.

[iskay]

Cool. Keep sharing.

[flo_reeftank]

Nice catch man

[yikai]

Hi All I am new to this forum and I am located in South Africa, I thought I would just post some pictures of some recent catches. This is the Old Woman Angelfish. Enjoy.

Amazing!

Pomacanthus rhomboides is common in the wild but exeedingly rare in the hobby. it is the only Pomacanthus in the genus to swim in large schools in open water column!

which part of South Africa are you from? and are you a supplier?

[Digiman]

Hi All I am new to this forum and I am located in South Africa, I thought I would just post some pictures of some recent catches. This is the Old Woman Angelfish. Enjoy.

Hi! Welcome to SRC.

SA! That means its possible for you to catch some kingi angelfish too?

Is it legal to ship native fish species out of your country?

[Narcosis1]

Will post what I catch next! Thank you, water hasn't been great this week but will hit the water again tomorrow.

I am just a local collector, dive for fun and catch fish. Nothing is better. Pomacanthus Rhomboides indeed, they are common but the ones I usually see are the large dull adults, the difficult in catching Old Woman juveniles is that they look like juvenile Emperors and Semi's. So you need to be able to identify the markings very well.

I also catch Marleys Butterflies, Gem Tangs and Tiger Angels.

[Narcosis1]

Thank you.

Yes, I have caught a few Kingi's before. More adults than juveniles.

Its not legal as far as I know.

[yikai]

Will post what I catch next! Thank you, water hasn't been great this week but will hit the water again tomorrow.

I am just a local collector, dive for fun and catch fish. Nothing is better. Pomacanthus Rhomboides indeed, they are common but the ones I usually see are the large dull adults, the difficult in catching Old Woman juveniles is that they look like juvenile Emperors and Semi's. So you need to be able to identify the markings very well.

I also catch Marleys Butterflies, Gem Tangs and Tiger Angels.

fascinating!

my friend and colleague at reefbuilders, jake adams, recently visited SA and reported waters to be very challenging to dive in S.A. and he was much delighted to finally see and filmed kingi as well as gem tangs in the wild.

you catch Chaetodon marleyi. I have a question. Does it swim together with C. robustus and hoefleri in the wild? or are all three living in separate areas.

[Narcosis1]

Thanks.

He dived in Aliwal Shoal I think or Sodwana. Both are marine protected areas. It is a bit tricky diving in South Africa, either the water is very clean or it is really bad and you cant see anything. Where we find Kingi's they are in waters with tiger sharks, raggies and hammerheads so there are a number of sharks around. Yeah I know Jake has a bit of a soft spot for the Kingi, I saw in one of his posts.

They all look very similar but as far as when I dive, I see Marleys together and not the Robustus or Hoefleri. Marleys are found in both Atlantic and Indian waters, So they can be kept in cold water 9 C or warmer water 24 C.

Are there any Kingis, Old Woman or Marleys in Singapore?

[yikai]

Thanks.

He dived in Aliwal Shoal I think or Sodwana. Both are marine protected areas. It is a bit tricky diving in South Africa, either the water is very clean or it is really bad and you cant see anything. Where we find Kingi's they are in waters with tiger sharks, raggies and hammerheads so there are a number of sharks around. Yeah I know Jake has a bit of a soft spot for the Kingi, I saw in one of his posts.

They all look very similar but as far as when I dive, I see Marleys together and not the Robustus or Hoefleri. Marleys are found in both Atlantic and Indian waters, So they can be kept in cold water 9 C or warmer water 24 C.

Are there any Kingis, Old Woman or Marleys in Singapore?

thanks! very interesting. yes jake has a soft spot for kingi as well as peppermint angels. i am not so crazy for Apolemichthys though, although it is a nice fish.

No kingi in Singapore. Only Taiwan and Japan has had it before. I'm not too sure if any made it to HK. Digiman could help with that. He knows religiously where all the kingi have appeared in the trade, down to the individual numbers, who has it and current living/dead status.

no old woman or marleyi as well. we only have robustus.

I like P. marcellae and Paracheilinus attenuatus. Both are african fish, the former sometimes available while the latter almost non existant here, sans 1 specimen.

[Digiman]

Thanks.

He dived in Aliwal Shoal I think or Sodwana. Both are marine protected areas. It is a bit tricky diving in South Africa, either the water is very clean or it is really bad and you cant see anything. Where we find Kingi's they are in waters with tiger sharks, raggies and hammerheads so there are a number of sharks around. Yeah I know Jake has a bit of a soft spot for the Kingi, I saw in one of his posts.

They all look very similar but as far as when I dive, I see Marleys together and not the Robustus or Hoefleri. Marleys are found in both Atlantic and Indian waters, So they can be kept in cold water 9 C or warmer water 24 C.

Are there any Kingis, Old Woman or Marleys in Singapore?

There are no marleyi in singapore. Marleyi has never been made available to us here.

However we have been offered before kingi and old woman. Both are very expensive.

Old woman would be about SGD3000 to SGD4000 while kingi is SGD10000 to SGD13000.

Due to the high price, no reefers in Singapore has yet to order one in.

Kingi and Old woman has been sent to Japan and Taiwan about twice annually since two years back.

So far the kingi are all very big, over 6", and all reported to be doing badly with the exception of a few, very few. It would help greatly if they leave the big ones in the ocean and start hunting smaller ones and offer to the hobby.

Narcosis1, Is it very difficult to find small kingi in SA? How rare are they in the wild and is it a seasonal occurrence?

Btw your nick is Narcosis, so i suppose Narcosis is your favorite angelfish?

[Narcosis1]

To be honest with you, the few I have caught are not so nice, Kingi's are extremely rare, or as Jake says " hyper rare "! We are wanting to try for Peppermints but logistics, risk and cost are not really looking to good.

Pity, I saw them recently in Taiwan not in Japan though. Digiman can you tell us where all the Kingis are? Not many have made it, the ones collected are needled and then not treated, they then don't eat or die of infection.

South African fish like Marleys, Tigers and Old Woman are not seen alot. Wonder what price they carry.

Will check them out, do you have pictures? I will look for them on my next dive.

[Digiman]

To be honest with you, the few I have caught are not so nice, Kingi's are extremely rare, or as Jake says " hyper rare "! We are wanting to try for Peppermints but logistics, risk and cost are not really looking to good.

Wow you were actually intending to collect peppermints for your own collection?

Sadly peppermint is a difficult and risky fish. Rufus is a very good collector and yet the survival rate of his peppermints is less than 50%.

Do you have a living kingi in your collection? And do you mean you find kingi an ugly fish?

I love kingi a lot. But sadly the big ones are bound to die. Small ones are unavailable to the trade. So i guess i will never get to own one.

[Narcosis1]

Marleys are awesome, I see them every now and then. Sometimes really small 2-3cm.

Those prices are extremely high, is there no demand for them? What is the rarest or most expensive fish in Singapore?

I have seen them available a number of months back but not very regularly.So they are entering the trade though, do you know how much they sold for? The big ones are quite because they are easier, but because they are found so deep it takes time to bring them up, if you needle them, you need to medicate them and guys dont, thats why they dont do well.

They are difficult to find, they are not always available. I have recently seen 2 juveniles that were about 5 - 6 cm but once they go into the reef, they are gone, they are really difficult to get.

Narcosis is a nice fish but my nick is Narcosis because of the condition Nitrogen Narcosis, which I suffer from when diving deep.

[yikai]

Narcosis is a nice fish but my nick is Narcosis because of the condition Nitrogen Narcosis, which I suffer from when diving deep.

Interesting. that is how the fish Centropyge narcosis got its name. Richard pyle suffered that condition and woke up surprised to find a bright yellow fish in his bucket. he named it that thereafter.

Marleyi is a beautiful butterfly but rare and unheard of here.

how is your condition now?

[Narcosis1]

We were planning on collecting for resale but from where we are and where the peppermints are, costs are too high to get there, collection is too risky because countries like the Cook Islands doesn't have deco chamber support so all and all it doesn't look like we can do it.

Peppermints are found deep, I am not sure how Rufus collects them, whether it be slowly bringing them up over a week or if he needles them, but needling fish is always risky and sometimes the infection sets in too quick and then they die. Rufus is very near to where they are located in the South Pacific I am all the way on the other side of the world, so to go there needs to be worthwhile.

I don't have one in my collection at the moment, I don't like the way that they look, they are not as attractive to me as pygmy angels but people love them I see. I can get Kingi if the water is good but they do well if they are not needled. The reason they die is that they are not decompressed properly. If that is done correctly and they are treated, less problems.

Small kingis will probably never make it out of the ocean, you need to be very patient or have a whole lot of luck!

[Narcosis1]

Nitrogen Narcosis just gives you a feeling of confusion and disorientation when diving deep, thats why Rich was so confused when he surfaced and saw he caught one. Lol. Crazy story.

I use Nitrox now when diving so sometimes I don't get and sometimes I do.

Marley must be super expensive as well. Its crazy on price.

[Digiman]

Marleys are awesome, I see them every now and then. Sometimes really small 2-3cm.

Those prices are extremely high, is there no demand for them? What is the rarest or most expensive fish in Singapore?

I have seen them available a number of months back but not very regularly.So they are entering the trade though, do you know how much they sold for? The big ones are quite because they are easier, but because they are found so deep it takes time to bring them up, if you needle them, you need to medicate them and guys dont, thats why they dont do well.

I do not know of Marleyi price. Japanese has gotten Marleyi's before, but that was very long time back.

As a gauge, small 2" Hoefleri sells for about S$700 in HongKong, so i would expect Marleyi to be higher, probably in the S$1000 region if it is available.

The previous batch of kingi's in Taiwan went for S$8k to S$13k. S$8k was a 7" giant and was not eating. It is probably dead by now.

How deep are the big kingi's?

[Digiman]

Marleys are awesome, I see them every now and then. Sometimes really small 2-3cm.

Those prices are extremely high, is there no demand for them? What is the rarest or most expensive fish in Singapore?

I have seen them available a number of months back but not very regularly.So they are entering the trade though, do you know how much they sold for? The big ones are quite because they are easier, but because they are found so deep it takes time to bring them up, if you needle them, you need to medicate them and guys dont, thats why they dont do well.

I do not know of Marleyi price. Japanese has gotten Marleyi's before, but that was very long time back.

As a gauge, small 2" Hoefleri sells for about S$700 in HongKong, so i would expect Marleyi to be higher, probably in the S$1000 region if it is available.

The previous batch of kingi's in Taiwan went for S$8k to S$13k. S$8k was a 7" giant and was not eating. It is probably dead by now.

How deep are the big kingi's?

[Narcosis1]

Marleys are expensive as well and I saw that there were some available years back. Marleys will probably be very expensive but who knows.

That is a crazy amount and they were eating? Sad story, spend $ 8k and the fish dies.

Big Kingis are 30 - 40m.

[Digiman]

That is a crazy amount and they were eating? Sad story, spend $ 8k and the fish dies.

Big Kingis are 30 - 40m.

It's not crazy really. That is how much kingi is going for in asian market. The japanese pay even more for it.

It sucks really. Spending over $10k on a fish that is going to die.

The S$8k kingi was very tempting and i almost pulled the trigger. Luckily i held back, else i would definitely be regretting it now.

30m = 100ft. Can't the divers bring it up slowly over a few hours without needling it?

Needling if done properly is safe, but if it is not, it will kill the fish very fast.

[Narcosis1]

But they are rare, so thats why they carry that heavy price tag. Are you looking for a Kingi? Do you like the way they look or just the fact that they are so rare?

No, decompression on a fish like that needs to be done over a day or 2. I dont believe in needling, there is so much that can go wrong puncture internal organs, infection, etc.

[Digiman]

Bandit angels shares the same story as Kingi.

But over the years, things have improved for bandits. Now healthy bandits are easily obtainable and it proves that with proper collection and conditioning, bandits are actually very easy fish.

I really hope to see the same happen to kingi in future.

If the divers are not going to learn how to collect properly and send healthy kingi, at that expensive price, the asian market will be turned off very quickly and the wholesaler will not order the fish anymore.

The rare angels collectors in Taiwan have learnt their lessons and they were discussing on their forum to stay away from this fish.

[yikai]

narcosis,

what are the success rates of kingi in your country. I know the locals do collect it and keep for their own tanks, but all i've known are dead. except for one big one, and the juvenile.

do the rest all die the same way?

[Digiman]

But they are rare, so thats why they carry that heavy price tag. Are you looking for a Kingi? Do you like the way they look or just the fact that they are so rare?

They are rare, very hard to get out of SA.

I love a kingi angel. It has a very nice body pattern, very unique. But of course i dont deny i probably like it partly because of its rarity. So its both, beauty and rarity, that i love this fish so much.

I am so envious of you, to be located in SA and has access to this fish.