SPS corals

[james72]

Hi guys, any recommendation where to find nice colourful sps corals, what are the prices like? Where sell the cheapest SPS?

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm.... I can tell you where but you have to tell us the following first.

Your calcium levels are at 600ppm?? What test kits are you using and how are you dosing calcium and alk supplements. What's your average PH levels?

You have to bring down your NO2 & NO3 to undectectable first before attempting SPS.

How long have you kept your cauliflower, goniopora, blue sponge, flame scallop, nudibranch and 5 anemones?

How old is your tank? How long have you been in this hobby?

AT

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm... from my investigations, you started your tank buying on the 13 Jan 04, cured your uncured smelly liverocks and placed them in to your tank on 24 Jan 04, and today is the 6th of Feb!!!!!!!!

12 days into your cycling and you have such a fully stocked tank??!? And you want to get into SPS corals?

My friend, I am afraid you are way over your head!!

Do you even know that what you have stocked in your tank requires a lot of specialized care and experts have to cater species-only tanks for what you're keeping with dedicated feeding of the right foods?

Do you know that you are NOT supposed to have any livestock till all the toxic levels of NO2 & NO3 becomes undetectable? That takes about a month... and then you have to stock up slowly... and certainly not with what you're stocked up with now!

Man! I'm shocked. I thought you did some homework! Did you not apply what the basic steps pinned up here in the New to the Hobby thread have taught you?

AT

[blueheaven]

[AquaRa]

oh no, this doesn't look good

[Coral_ClamS]

Boss is flaring up...cool down boss!

calm your nerves and explain to him slowly...

many get too anxious and excited in marine lifes after the nemo craze ...and want to get everything they can afford w/o thinking of the conseqences...dun blame him at the most ...jus ask him to sell his ls and start all over again as a punishment from U ..! ! !

[DeepBlue]

I do understand his concern....really, if setup is not meant for sps, will not onli end up killling them, also lose a lot of money unnecessarily.

Ever since I wanted to try 1 or 2 colony of SPS, I have had to sacrifice a lot of things:

Time: must spend on reading up, know what genus the different 'colourful' sps are and their requirement

Patience: slowly tweek my tank water condition(still cannot make it)

Fish choice: My favourite Tangs are gone

Equipment and money: change my skimmer, installing quite a bit of essential equipment like lights, CR..KR....Tunze......

Coral/tankmates: moved my favourite zoos(sold)....

Really, if you spent time reading the forum postings, you'll find many exp. reefers here lost frags and colonies whenever their tank conditions are not at its prime. SPS can rtn faster than you know. Same goes to LPS, they can just melt away so fast if we are not careful.

james72 bro, hope you can understand

[Achilles Tang]

I'm not ANGRY at him... gee... I don't even know him.

It's just that I'm a little disappointed that perhaps all my efforts are in vain... if by now, even newbies who are in SRC BEFORE even starting their tank would have read up the basics and researched enough to know what's required, what's to be avoided etc. still goes ahead to do this.

I consider it mission failed.

I was a newbie like he was before. I paid 'tuition fees' to the shops, a high price to pay for my own ignorance. I too struggled with impatience, lack of knowledge and yearning to stock up my tank with EVERYTHING, too fast, too soon, too much... and in the end... too BAD!

I want to see knowledge passed on, so the newbies can have a faster shallower learning curve, bypassing common mistakes and pitfalls, saving time, money & heartache, learning to care for their marine pets and becoming a responsible reefer.

James72, no hard feelings but I hope you know what I'm saying.

If you know enough about curing LR, you should know about the nitrogen cycle. And you should know the consequences of trying to stock up your tank during it.

What's shocking is that you have bought the typical stuff which is considered hard to care for, even by experts. Cauliflower soft corals, gonioporas, blue sponges, flame scallops, nudibranchs and anemones - can you tell me what the feeding & housing requirements are?

AT

[jd_n]

Deepblue is absolutly rite, juz take mine for example.....the previous temp accident caused a few colonies of mine to RTN as well as specimens tat took mths to color up nicely ended up brown. And the recent migration of my sps due to tank upgrade together with proper precaution and steps taken as well as ideal water condition yet i still suffers close to 70% fatality among my sps . They are a species of really delicate corals tat hardly allow any room for mistakes and somthin they dun like or subject to stress.....u will see them waste away

[Coral_ClamS]

yah agree with deepblue...

now really have to fork out some time going to KINOKONIYA to read up on the sps books to learn more of the genus ...but equipment and husbandry care wise gotta look for more in webbies(still searching) and forums and learn from experts... really taking up lots of time.!

james72 : take your time to learn as u go along SLOWLY

patience is the key to every success!

Wish u good luck...and beware our boss ...is angRY!

[Coral_ClamS]

oh AT so u arent angry sorry ...

maybe AT there's gotta be greater cooperation between the big guys and the newbies for them to adapt to learning the nice way...

however many learn thing the hard way instead of following the good advise that came first!

DO understand the human nature.

[Achilles Tang]

Coral Clams...! I'm NOT ANGRY!!!

You guys should know that I'm the friendliest most patient Godfather Mafia Don in town who'll make you sleep with the fishes tonight if you so much as hurt a bristle of a fireworm!

Don't make me reach out thru your computer monitor and strangle you!

And no one agrees with me? Only Deepblue? :cry:

[DeepBlue]

erhhmmmm..you forgot jd_n, his word has more weightage...he has much more exp in sps than me, ME? not even ready after preparing for months Damn weak not as Ga-rung as Dispar Anthias

[jd_n]

Coral Clams...! I'm NOT ANGRY!!!

You guys should know that I'm the friendliest most patient Godfather Mafia Don in town who'll make you sleep with the fishes tonight if you so much as hurt a bristle of a fireworm!

Don't make me reach out thru your computer monitor and strangle you!

And no one agrees with me? Only Deepblue? :cry:

Reach out thru the monitor. "sadako"....then have to quickly off the computer so tat AT hand will get stuck and suntan his hand with MH

[Achilles Tang]

It won't work, Jd_n.

My hands are IMMUNE to MH rays... I have sufficient exposure to 1600watts to be radioactive enough!

Want to see me glow in the dark?

[jd_n]

Glow in the dark huh.....like those french "hat" tat comes in glow in the dark type, very kinky...must go try it out myself c whether wife like it ornt. censored censored....

[hmkui]

Well guys.. AT is a committed hobbyist and it is sad to know that some hobbyist is killing the corals and fishes because of being impatient to wait for the tank to cycle. It's a normal phenomenon for new hobbyists to stock up their tank because of their desire to get everything up running. Sad to say most of the new hobbyist do not commit the time and effort to do their research on marine tank during the beginning. Worst case is when the new hobbyist gather all the wrong information from some unethical LFS. Which is why this club was being created. The fundermental of the club is to impart and share experiences. (pardon me if I am wrong) As a committed hobbyist, it is important for us to share our knowledge and educated new hobbyists. I am very glad that this club was being created and I personally learn a lot of new things even though I have this hobby for 10 years. I think we should try to help one another and exchange our experiences so that we could all achieved success in this hobby and it is also part of our duty to help save the reef. I have read an article which quite sometime back regarding yellow tang. It was estimated that in a year a total of 300,000 yellow tang was caught and sold into aquarium all around the world and imagine how many of this fishes kill by hobbyist and that is only 1 specsis and how about the rest. (sorry guys too lengthy hope u guys will pardon me for this..... )

[FuEl]

AT was just being frank. I'm sure the senior reefers here...even AT himself.. might have killed something back in time when technology was not that advanced or due to the lack of knowledge. Even I am guilty of that. But that's not the point. Years back (around the 1980s to 1990s), information technology was virtually undeveloped. Reef-keeping husbandry was not efficiently consolidated and shared. LFS give stupid advise (some still the case today)..This led to many unneccessary deaths of marine organisms in the aquarium trade.

But now, there is the internet. There is a forum. There are better literature available for reference. There are better LFS. One has the opportunity to learn

It's not that difficult to keep marine anymore, provided that one is open to learning. Not everyone knows everything, nor can learn everything. Knowledge is boundless. The wise learns from others before trying.

Lets all not flame james72...I'm sure he is here to learn..if not he would not have joined the forum at all. Everyone has experienced compulsive buying disorder at one time or another. Sometimes I still try to fight it within me! So....let's all chill. I'm sure james72 know we have the intention to help..not just to throw malicious responses.

[hmkui]

Yes, I strongly agree with Fuel. We are here to help one another and I believe James72 do not have the intention to harm any LS cos... it is expensive to do so... all the best James72

[Achilles Tang]

Compulsive Buying Disorder!! I almost forgot about this term I coined up!

Fuel, no one is flaming James72 as I far as I am concerned.

It is our responsibility to share with him the better way to do things. He can choose to believe us or do things on his own and learn the hard way. It's quite straightforward.

Just that while in this hobby.... do spare a thought for beautiful & fragile marine life!

[james72]

Compulsive Buying Disorder!! I almost forgot about this term I coined up!

Fuel, no one is flaming James72 as I far as I am concerned.

It is our responsibility to share with him the better way to do things. He can choose to believe us or do things on his own and learn the hard way. It's quite straightforward.

Just that while in this hobby.... do spare a thought for beautiful & fragile marine life!

Oh sorry for the late reply, & thanks for all the advices......Guess I can't control the tempt whenever I visit the LFS, thus stocking up so fast. However I do read up and started stocking only after my NH3 and NO2- are zero and NO3- is 0.5mg/l. So far the corals are still surviving, but lose the 2 nudibranch liao. Have since stop the stocking up as I observed the NO2- is creeping up to 0.3mg/l & the lost of my 2 nudibranch. Will continue after it has stabilise.

As for the choosing of the type of corals, whether is it for experts or beginners, frankly speaking......I dont care :-) I believe in learning from mistakes. If you dont try, you will never know. Therefore, despite

all the kind advices, I do appreciated it, I'll still go ahead and purchase a frag of an Acro to try.......sorry if in the process of learning I sacrifies some marine lives, well.....this is what I called life.

Thy may know some things, but never assume thy know everything.

[Achilles Tang]

Hey man, I can't agree with your thinking.

If you don't try, you never know???

How about you try keeping a blue ring octopus? You don't try, you never know right?

Maybe keep a pet cobra running loose in the house? You don't try, you never know right?

Too extreme an example? How about keeping a dog at home and not feeding it? Deprived it of sleep? Beat it up and torture it? See how long it survive after not eating for days?

If you enjoy killing livestock, I hope you build up just enough karmic points to reincarnate as a nice acro coral (and I don't believe in reincarnation) and meet someone LIKE yourself because I think you really have a WRONG attitude in this hobby!

As for the choosing of the type of corals, whether is it for experts or beginners, frankly speaking......I dont care :-) I believe in learning from mistakes. If you dont try, you will never know. Therefore, despite

all the kind advices, I do appreciated it, I'll still go ahead and purchase a frag of an Acro to try.......sorry if in the process of learning I sacrifies some marine lives, well.....this is what I called life.

Why don't you take this philosophy and drive around on the roads and learn how to be a better driver after killing a few pedestrians? Or how to be a better father after killing your kids by learning they should not be playing on the balcony ledge?

I'm honestly quite disgusted that you have the cheek to say it out in the open and you know what? I was not angry before but now I am seriously annoyed.

If you can't be a responsible hobbyist, may I suggest you go take up another hobby like paintball or racing cars. Don't take up any hobby that involves another life.. because YOU SIMPLY HAVE NO RESPECT for any life.

You give us your thoughts on this because I won't wash my hands off you just yet. Give me a ounce of hope.

If you are here to learn, we are here to share and teach.

If you persist in this thinking, you are not a responsible reefer and SRC does not condone or support those who blatantly take coral-keeping so lightheartedly.

Think about it. HARD. (And it applies to all facets of life, not just this hobby).

[Tanzy]

As for the choosing of the type of corals, whether is it for experts or beginners, frankly speaking......I dont care :-) I believe in learning from mistakes. If you dont try, you will never know. Therefore, despite

all the kind advices, I do appreciated it, I'll still go ahead and purchase a frag of an Acro to try.......sorry if in the process of learning I sacrifies some marine lives, well.....this is what I called life.

Good for you!

Then I'm sure it don't matter if I shit-list you. Please continue to experiment, make mistakes and kill more livestock so you can learn all by your arrogant self. Don't ask for advice if you are not interested to learn. Why don't you just go buy acro from any LFS and learn from your mistakes which are the lousier and more expensive ones, OK?

[pacificbetta]

james72 ,

This hobby has seen enough of senseless and unneccessary deaths, lets not intentionally create more. I believe your experimental spirit will be put to better use, *after* you spend some time following tried and tested paths, when you have learnt some basics and know which paths are not even worth exploring. If you still believe in experimenting right from the start, there will only be a group of people laughinh their way to the bank, the lfs and their LS suppliers.

You guys should know that I'm the friendliest most patient Godfather Mafia Don in town who'll make you sleep with the fishes tonight if you so much as hurt a bristle of a fireworm! 

And to the above quote, my big fat hairy ######

[Joe_P]

As for the choosing of the type of corals, whether is it for experts or beginners, frankly speaking......I dont care :-) I believe in learning from mistakes. If you dont try, you will never know. Therefore, despite

all the kind advices, I do appreciated it, I'll still go ahead and purchase a frag of an Acro to try.......sorry if in the process of learning I sacrifies some marine lives, well.....this is what I called life.

Thy may know some things, but never assume thy know everything.

This is one of the craziest statement I have heard...!!!!

Some one once told me this....

Smart people learn from others mistakes...

The Average gets to make some before learning...

Idiots jus dun seem to get it..... even after much advice....

Been tryin real hard to figure which category you are in....

Come on man,

We are not stopping you from keeping them...

What WE ARE STRONGLY PUTTING ACROSS INTO THAT HEAD OF YOURS is simply this.....

Read up and prepare yourself, listen to the few reefers who have been successful, heard from them.....

And you should soon join them.... and

I really think you need to put a check on that crazy attitude of yours...