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Suspect Palytoxin Poisoning - All Paly and Zoas Keepers Please Read

Gouldian

By Gouldian,
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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Dear reefers,

Just wanted to share my experience which i surmise to be palytoxin poisoning.

Received a frag of pink zoas from a friend on 12/07. Although zoas is doing alright, it was periodically peck on by my Emperor angel.

22/07 03:00 - Tank was doing ok and Emperor still sampling Zoas

22/07 09:00 - AT is dead and Emperor is breathing heavily, did water test on NH3, No2, No3, Ca, Mg, kH and salinity - all ok. Gorgonian, Sea fans, Euphylia, Zoas not opening fully, 2 x Squamy ok, Fishes, Shrimps and Snails moving slowly. Black Ocellaris spawn. Skimmate bubbles are stiffer unlike the usual skimmate that I get from my Deltec 701.

22/07 9.30 - Change 30% water add 300gm of carbon, Squamy still ok, Emperor dead, Fishes not appetite, Toby in overflow box dead, Percs behaving weird.

22/07 17:30 - YT dead, Cleaner wrasse dead, 1 cleaner shrimp dead, Squamy still ok, corals still not opening fully. Dead pods floating around.

22/07 21:00 - Added Ozone, Cleaner shrimps and percs behaving weird, Squamy still ok, coras still not opening fully.

23/07 06:50 - All CS dead, percs dead, water test still within range. Ocellaris pair and fire shrimps still droopy. Skimmate increases slightly than normal. All tronchus sp. snails dead.

23/07 19.45 - Survival - Ocellaris pairs with its brood of eggs, fire shrimp pair, small hitch hiker snails, all corals remains not fully extended except brown monti partially bleached. 2 x Squamy as usual. Added 200gm of carbon

24/07 06.50 to this 26/07 06.30 - No more die off, not feeding response from Ocellaris and fire shrimps. All corals remains not fully extended except brown monti partially bleached. All parameter within range.

I have initially suspected and rule-out the below:

  • Food
  • Salt
  • Clam Spawning
  • Ocellaris Spawning
  • Phenol from air freshner
  • Accumulated dust from cooling fan

But I find Palytoxin the most likely reason after reading the same in CanReef - http://www.canreef.c...ead.php?t=76799.

Any bros here have any experience?

All comments welcome.

Ref:

http://blogs.discove...store-near-you/

http://www.sciencema.../3982/495.short

http://www.google.co...iw=1280&bih=737

http://www.coralbiom...ytoxine-danger/

http://blog.aquanerd...r-magazine.html

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Sorry to hear of your lost... were the pink zoas on a frag plug or on live rock?

Ya, the AT is my favorite and emperor is my children's choice. Sigh

It was on a small piece of LR. None left now after I clear the melting remnants away.

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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peacemaker Rookie

peacemaker

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Hmmm... it just doesn't sound right. I have zoas & palys dying on me all the time, but my tank seems fine. None of my tank inhabitants peck on the Zs & Ps though, so they may not release their defense mechanism. I'm more inclined to think it could be bacteria.

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Shouldnt be the case, you should have put carbon once you noticed something wrong..

The AT was quite long liao if not wrong..

I am still stumbled, as of now ocellaris pair survive together with their clutch.

Yup, AT with huge tear drop and streamer. :cry:

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Sorry to hear of your losses. I recall one incident very similar to yours and discovered the cause was due to sea cucumber death.

Thanks bro. Dun have cuke and nothin dying except from zoas.

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Hmmm... it just doesn't sound right. I have zoas & palys dying on me all the time, but my tank seems fine. None of my tank inhabitants peck on the Zs & Ps though, so they may not release their defense mechanism. I'm more inclined to think it could be bacteria.

Maybe some bacteria or virus, but these will need autopsy to determine.

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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spkentchai Apprentice

spkentchai

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Sorry to hear this bro Goudian....all of us should be wary and caution that we do not totally understand the underwater world...thanks bro for sharing your painful experience....

-
5x1.5x2ft Tank


5x2.5x2 Full Height Tank

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Jameshong Newbie

Jameshong

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Hahaha..bro Gouldian, you are not alone..my 3ft tank crashed too on Tuesday. The symptom almost same as your but I never bought any corals from reefers nor LFS this few week instead doing more fragging of my zoas from my 3ft to my nano tank.

Currently, 3 clown fishes, anthias, fire shrimp RIP n SPS like milli, BIrdnest bleached too.....sigh! N make thing worst, my Radion led lightest failed me one day after the tank crashed...sigh, sigh, sigh..!

Will it be palytoxin poisoning too?

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Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. - Goethe

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RockyBoy Newbie

RockyBoy

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Hahaha..bro Gouldian, you are not alone..my 3ft tank crashed too on Tuesday. The symptom almost same as your but I never bought any corals from reefers nor LFS this few week instead doing more fragging of my zoas from my 3ft to my nano tank. Currently, 3 clown fishes, anthias, fire shrimp RIP n SPS like milli, BIrdnest bleached too.....sigh! N make thing worst, my Radion led lightest failed me one day after the tank crashed...sigh, sigh, sigh..! Will it be palytoxin poisoning too?

Better start water change...

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Jameshong Newbie

Jameshong

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Better start water change...

Since Tank crashed, I have already done one time 50% water change and follow by 20% daily till now. Now is hope for the best and prepare for the worst...sigh :wacko: !

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Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do. - Goethe

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Thanks for all comments and supports.

26/07 22.00 - Ocellaris pair slightly more active guarding and cleaning their eggs, blood shrimps pair minding their business. Corals looks more happy. Parameters ok, Ozone still on, and skimmate still stiff and copious than usual.

27/07 06.40 - Ocellaris pair with eggs (silvery eyes). blood shrimp pair minding their business. Try a small pinch of TDO on clowns but very eager but took a few bite.

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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klim Newbie

klim

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Hearing the tragedy from the expert make me wondering should I restart the reef tank. Really sad to hear the crash or any death of LS.

My condolence to your reef fishes and corals I can understand your feeling. Take care.

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Hearing the tragedy from the expert make me wondering should I restart the reef tank. Really sad to hear the crash or any death of LS.

My condolence to your reef fishes and corals I can understand your feeling. Take care.

Its true that most of us felt the pain when there's something wrong with our tanks.

However, I believe we should not give up simply due to such mishaps but strive to work harder towards a better husbandry.

To be honest, I still cannot pin-point what exactly is the cause/s of my situation but I hope through the sharing, we will collectively learn from this incident.

From your past posting klim, I can see that you are a conscientious guy, I encourage you to consider re-starting.

;)

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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pitto Newbie

pitto

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Sorry to hear ur lost brother..really unexpected..

Shouldnt be the case, you should have put carbon once you noticed something wrong..

The AT was quite long liao if not wrong..

One question- how does adding carbon helps exactly in this sorta situation? And if already have existing carbon, i would presume to change it?

~ 24 June 2012 ~

Main Tank Display- 4ft (L) x 2ft (W) x 2.5ft (H) 3side view

Return Pump- 2x Eheim 1262

Wavemaker- Conch II + Tunze

Skimmer- Hydor Performer 700DP

Lighting- Sun System Tek-Light T5 8 x ATI 54W

Chiller- Hailea 1/4hp

Reactor- Skimz FR Rowaphos

Dosing Pump- Bubble Magus BM-T01

-Refugium-

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Sorry to hear ur lost brother..really unexpected..

One question- how does adding carbon helps exactly in this sorta situation? And if already have existing carbon, i would presume to change it?

Hi bro,

Thanks for your kind words.

Adding carbon will adsorb whatever toxins, chemical in the tank thereby mitigate the situation in the tank.

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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klim Newbie

klim

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Bro Gouldian, thanks for the words, you have the "never say die" spirit. Keep up the work and I believed you will be more successful than what you have done in the past.

I am just a novice and trying hard to work towards a good husbandry. That's why I have yet to start any LS. Patient is the key and I know I must be patient.

Thanks and add fuel.

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iskay Newbie

iskay

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Sad story but look at the bright side, now you can restock with more exotics!

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"Be formless... shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle; it becomes the bottle. You put it into a teapot; it becomes the teapot. Water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend..." - Lei Siu Lung (Bruce Lee)

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Gouldian Newbie

Gouldian

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Thanks you guys for the kinds words, I will definitely "reef on". :thumbsup:

"Reefs, like forests, will only be protected in long term if they are appreciated"
Dr. J.E.N. Veron
Australian Institute of Marine Science

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LittleBurger Newbie

LittleBurger

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.... my Radion led lightest failed me one day after the tank crashed...sigh, sigh, sigh..!

is it your fan spoil? cos mine failed in Late jun.

Tank size:36"x36"x24"

Return pump" 2x Reef Octo 5000

Skimmer:BK Double Cone 200 on Reef Octopus DC 5500s.

Wavemaker:2xVortech MP40wES

Chemical filtration:1xeducator FR(biopellets)

Chiller:1hp Daikin compressor.

Lighting:2 x Kessil A360we

Auto topup system: JBJ ATO + new jet 1200

Dosing system: Kamoer 3 channel.

Additives: ESV 2 part.

Power consumption

2XReef Octo 5000: 120watts

BK skimmer:50watts

2xVortech wavemaker:70watts

Daikin compressor:775watts

Lighting:180watts

Ato system:21watts

Exhaust fans:16watts

Refugium light:27watts

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