About LFS and their stock

[dragonfly_sg]

Just shooting the breeze but there is something bugging me about the water conditions of our LFS that I want to toss out and see if anyone can enlighten me.

Every time I visit a LFS, there is bound to be one or more tank that have fishes that are obviously sick and very unhealthy. And I know that most, if not all uses some form of recirculating system. IE. a central sump which handles(filter) and distributes water back to a number of tanks. I am not sure how many such system each shop will have but I assume 2 or 3? Which means that the tank of sick fishes must be sharing it's water with at least 33~25% of the tanks in the shop? Does this means most of the fish from the LFS will probably carry some form of bacteria or parasite? Or am I missing something?

My experience with buying fishes from LFS isn't very successful, I lose about 40% of the fishes I purchase within the first 2 months. Is that an acceptable norm or am I doing something wrong. The problem is with the doubt with the recirculation system planted in my mind, I am not sure if the fishes death is because of anything I did or can control. Like I buy 5 clowns and only 3 makes it after a month, 3 baggai and only 2 makes it after a month. All with the same condition.

Incidentally fishes I catch from the wild have a better survival rate in my experience. And fishes from the buy and sell section in the forum usually do very well too. So I have this nagging feeling it's the LFS that the source of the problem?

[tropic]

Most will advise you to quarantine your fishes perhaps about a month. You can't see the parasite that is inside the fish. Without another host the parasite may not be able to reproduce and dies off. Fishes from other hobbyist have build up their immune over time in the tank , perhaps thats why survive better. Sometimes it may have to do with water etc.

[dragonfly_sg]

I understand and support the need to quarantine 100%. But the issue is, if my assumption is true, then we must assume that all the fish we buy from the LFS are by default sick in someway. Just that depending on it's condition when you purchase, some are just less sick then others? If that's true then isn't it rather depressing?

Without another host the parasite may not be able to reproduce and dies off.

That is not exactly true, when I quarantine I put all the new fishes together in a quarantine tank. I doubt many people can afford a quarantine tank per fish especially in the early stocking stage. And even if you buy only one fish, the parasite can still host or re-host on the original fish unless it dies. I think the quarantine idea is more for observation and treatment if problem is identified. More so that additional baddies don't get introduce into the main tank.

Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of a quarantine option now a days, and I know the risk and experienced the consequences.

[yikai]

ALL LFS here in singapore do not quarantine their fish before it is put up for sale.

this means that fish from ALL LFS will habor disease wether or not you can see it.

the only exception is coral farm. they have a holding room where fish are stored temporarily before putting out for sale. however this is not quarantine and fish sold still habor disease. but the fish from there is very much healthier.

[Jameshong]

ALL LFS here in singapore do not quarantine their fish before it is put up for sale.

this means that fish from ALL LFS will habor disease wether or not you can see it.

the only exception is coral farm. they have a holding room where fish are stored temporarily before putting out for sale. however this is not quarantine and fish sold still habor disease. but the fish from there is very much healthier.

I thought Ah bak is one of the exceptional LFS who quarantine his fishes for 2 weeks before release for sale ?

[inwear]

Sealife QT their LS. Btw most or all LFS hv copper in their tanks to prevent outbreak. As for dosage level its their trade secret

[Ah-lim]

I only put 1 fish per QT tank. Currently, have 2 QT tank which are 1 feet each in my room.

I stock rather slowly, so far, haven't lose a fish in within 2 months.

Normally buy fish from Sealife due to ease of transpot, and their fish last longer (of course, do select the fish carefully, check no spots,marks, feeding etc).

[dragonfly_sg]

To be fair, a handful of LFS are better then others, but those are the rare ones. I understand it's basically an economic issue with the LFS and maybe pride in their product for some. I guess the question then to me is, would I pay more for a fish from those LFS that done some form of quarantine, rest or observation period. Maybe when I was starting the hobby I wouldn't, but as times goes and better understanding of this hobby, it has become more acceptable.

Inwear, how does copper help? If we have a FOWLR tank could we do likewise, not that I am gonna do it . I know the LFS add some blueish chemical into the tanks or tub containing new shipment, is that copper? Well, actually my question should be, is there any negative effect ?

[inwear]

To be fair, a handful of LFS are better then others, but those are the rare ones. I understand it's basically an economic issue with the LFS and maybe pride in their product for some. I guess the question then to me is, would I pay more for a fish from those LFS that done some form of quarantine, rest or observation period. Maybe when I was starting the hobby I wouldn't, but as times goes and better understanding of this hobby, it has become more acceptable.

Inwear, how does copper help? If we have a FOWLR tank could we do likewise, not that I am gonna do it . I know the LFS add some blueish chemical into the tanks or tub containing new shipment, is that copper? Well, actually my question should be, is there any negative effect ?

mild dosage of copper is aka to provide copper treatment. Highly effective towards ick outbreak.You call tell by testing crater test and i observe the LS color is duller as compact to non treatment tank.

[inwear]

mild dosage of copper is aka to provide copper treatment. Highly effective towards ick outbreak.You call tell by testing crater test and i observe the LS color is duller as compact to non treatment tank.

especially for PBT

[yikai]

some of the LFS do "quarantine" their fish but not strict enough to kill off every single disease.

such LFS do exists and their stock are much healthier. sealife doses copper and ah bak does holding before sales but bear in mind, absolute quarantine is a tedious process and must be done diligently for a minimum of 6 weeks.

unless the LFS quarantine for 6 weeks, it is not considered full quarantine and the fishes, although much healthier than other LFS, will still carry some disease that does not show out yet.

no LFS can possibly hold the fish and quarantine them for that long.

it's the buyer's job to quarantine your own fish.

for the record, i've seen white spots in every single LFS in singapore so far.

even top notch state of the art facilities in the U.S like liveaquaria, who supposedly quarantine their fishes for months before putting up on sale, also have some cases where fish have white spots.

it's not easy to quarantine on such large scales when it comes to lfs. because so many different fish with different habits and so many different kinds of diseases out there.

but on an individual at home level, it can be done much easily and effectively.

hope this helps.

[yikai]

I thought Ah bak is one of the exceptional LFS who quarantine

his fishes for 2 weeks before release for sale ?

if you study the life cycle of various protozoan disease like white spots etc,

2 weeks is no where near enough time to eradicate the disease.

this is not considered quarantine, but more of holding and acclimation.

it's still better than nothing as the fish are healthier etc. but that doesn't mean it is disease free.

[yeo99]

It is always disappointing to see the newly purchased fishes died even you have quarantined it properly. Quarantine increases greatly the chance of survive.

The important i think is the selection. The fish must be eating if possible. If it is eating, there will be much high chance of survive.

Yes, I do not mind paying a slightly higher price if the fish have some form of quarantine. Hopefully not too much ....