any way to balance flowrate

[lightningstrike]

hi all,

is there any way to balance the flowrate from the main tank to the refugium and vice versa without using a overflow compartment in the main tank?

i hv tried the following methods unsucessfully,

1) siphon from main tank to ref and using a pump to return the water from the ref to the main tank.

problem: no way to balance the water in the ref.

2) pump water from the main tank to the ref and using another similar pump to return the water back to the tank.

problem: no way to balance the water in the ref.

3) siphon water from the main tank and control using a float valve, return water using pump.

problem: water flowing into the ref too slow to accomodate pump returning water back up.

plz help me!!!!

[sugi]

May be this will work:

Use your method 1 and modify.

Attach a valve control to your pump.

This way you have a better control of the water flow to your tank.

You need to adjust the valve to the correct output flow.

Rdgs

[lightningstrike]

my pump oredi has a variable flowrate controller. still no way to balance flowrate to exactly that of the flowrate that is coming into the ref.

[dersuz]

Use I-box to solve the above problem cause you can never balance the pump and siphon. If siphon failed, your main tank will be flooded and overflow. If pump failed, your ref will be flooded and overflow.

[sunny03]

add a ball valve control to your piping this may do the trick

[sugi]

Then may be you attach a valve for the pipe to the ref.

Like that you can play around and balance both.

[Hon]

Easy answer. This will never ever work Unless u tune it everyday before leaving the house.

Get a hangon over flow box and solve your problem.

[lightningstrike]

hv considered using the i-box. but like i said, i wanna consider all options available without using a overflow box first. thks anyway. any better ideas?

[sunny03]

i agree with hon get a overflow box althrough it not nice to have a box in tank but i solve all the problem u have

like me now still have not solve my problem yet the return rate

[sugi]

Hon,

Any idea how is the hangover overflow work ?

You still need to to do some adjustment right ?

and you need to do something to start the water flowing.

The hangover overflow available here is so costly.

If can DIY best!

[lightningstrike]

hi sunny03 and sugi,

hv tried using check valve otherwise known as ball valve and globe valve to control the flowrate b4. nonetheless, still not able to maintain exact balance in the ref. juz a little unbalance both way will cause the ref to flood or the pump in the ref to burn out. i think u know what i mean.

[lightningstrike]

think the i-box or any other overflow box is the only way out here. does any place hv readily made hang on overflow box for sale?

[sunny03]

ya i know but where u place the ball valve ?? the piping to sump or the pump to main tank i put mine at the pump to main tank when i keeping aro that time

[lightningstrike]

juz thought of an idea. wonder if it works. plz gimme ur valuable comments.

an improvement to idea 3.

3) siphon water from the main tank and control using a float valve, return water using pump.

problem: water flowing into the ref too slow to accomodate pump returning water back up.

assuming water returning to main tank by pump is 100%,

and i know that the water flowing down to the ref via siphon via float valve is 10-20%.

connect another pipeline to siphon water down to the ref via siphon via check valve to control flow to 80-90%.

this way, about 10 to 20% of the water in the ref can be controlled by the float valve.

[lightningstrike]

hi sunny03,

my ball valve is at the pipeline from the main tank to the ref. like i said, i hv a variable flowrate control at the pump. so no logic putting the ball valve at the pipeline returning water to the main tank.

[sunny03]

u can try lor but have u think if there a power failure ur pump fail, will the return to tank piping break the siphon or when the pump works again can ur piping back to the sump can self prime to siphon back the water

i was like u to counter teh flow problem but never think of power failuer result my room flood a few time

[Trymybest]

Hello I am new here. I got the simple & lousy diagram to share. Just finished the drawing. Its work very well. I do have a pc S pipe working for 7months no problem at all. I will try to take the real pc photo tomolo.

[Midman]

Hello I am new here. I got the simple & lousy diagram to share. Just finished the drawing. Its work very well. I do have a pc S pipe working for 7months no problem at all. I will try to take the real pc photo tomolo.

Are you sure it works....I've tried a few ways but it will surely overflow from your sump out of power failure or your sump will dry off before the tank water reach the sump... Can you please be more detail as I'm interested too...k

[Trymybest]

Are you sure it works....I've tried a few ways but it will surely overflow from your sump out of power failure or your sump will dry off before the tank water reach the sump... Can you please be more detail as I'm interested too...k

Yes its work very fine for me. After install the pipe, try to on & Off ur return pump to make sure the pipe work well. & make sure ur sump can support the 1" water from ur main tank. I will try to post the real pic. this is another diagram to make thing more clear. Hope will help.

Btw, Make sure the water is not overflow down from ur return pump pipe too.

[alvy]

this is essentially how an overflow box works,except this one has no BOX to create a flowover effect.

lightingstrike, get this in ur knowledge: no matter how hard you try to balance the flow having 2 variable independant channel (from tank to sump, and from sump to tank), it is near impossible to achieve balance without adding some form of electronic or mechanical flow controlling device to auto shutdown or start the main return pump when the 2 independent flow channels are out of synch! this is a PITA, expensive and prone to failure. All the ways u've suggested are not feasible and are subsceptible to failure as they involve mechanical parts which can malfunction due to undermaintenance, blockage or wear&tear..even if you can get an exact flowrate using a precision valve to control the flowrate of the pump in synch with the siphon, a deposite build up over time along the flow channel will already change the flowrate shifting the balance of the flow..also most pumps/powerhead do not consistently run at the same performance with possibility of a few % deviation from time to time (depending on the water level within the sump, deposite build up on the impellor..minor voltage flucuation within the powersupply etc).

Wat you should do is to reduce the varying factors (flow channels). Instead of having 2 independant flow channel, have only 1 channel, in other words, ensure that the down-flow rate (from tank to sump) is dependant on the return rate. 2 simple ways to do it.

1. Install a properly designed Overflow box, eg I-box..the price of I-box is relatively cheaper than wat you can afford overseas! and with proper maintenance, it is almost fail safe. you can diy, lots of plans online..

2. Drill tank, install internal overflow chamber. this is definitely the safest bet and almost all of us employ this method!

cheers

[lightningstrike]

thks everyone for ur kind advice. hv oredi bought the i-box over the weekend. all i can say is it is worth it. save all the headaches!!!!

btw, trymybest, i hv tried ur idea b4, but it does not work for me.

[Midman]

Yes its work very fine for me. After install the pipe, try to on & Off ur return pump to make sure the pipe work well. & make sure ur sump can support the 1" water from ur main tank. I will try to post the real pic. this is another diagram to make thing more clear. Hope will help.

Btw, Make sure the water is not overflow down from ur return pump pipe too.

for the info Trymybest....ur method works...I manage to balance up the overflow and the return as well....spent my whole sunday to have this stuff up and running + some troubleshooting just incase there is power failure..hehehe. At least I can use my old 3 tier filter into good use..hehehe ...similar concept to i-box but it just without the box..only left the 'I' and cheaper too hahaha.... My next move will be making a DIY refugium.. wish me luck....cya later guys...

[Trymybest]

for the info Trymybest....ur method works...I manage to balance up the overflow and the return as well....spent my whole sunday to have this stuff up and running + some troubleshooting just incase there is power failure..hehehe. At least I can use my old 3 tier filter into good use..hehehe ...similar concept to i-box but it just without the box..only left the 'I' and cheaper too hahaha.... My next move will be making a DIY refugium.. wish me luck....cya later guys...

U are welcome Midman. Still unable to snap the picture yet. How about U take ur newly DIY "S Pipe" for us to share.

[Midman]

U are welcome Midman. Still unable to snap the picture yet. How about U take ur newly DIY "S Pipe" for us to share.

Trymybest....wish I could but I don't have any digital camera or even a scanner yet ........unless somebody is willing to loan their digital camera to me...

[Trymybest]

No idea whether still got ppl interest on the overflow S pipe or not. Just able snap the picture & post it here for sharing.