Bare Bottom = Less Nitrate&Phospate?

[Asfur]

Hello everybody, i just want to re-setup my tank. Before that i use crush coral as my gravel (without UGF) about 3 cm thick, and after few years the gravel a full of tons debris and muck, so as a result i can't control the cyanobacteria/blue green algae/mat algae. Actually i want to growth green hairy algae in my F/O tank, but i ever read that with high nitrate and phospate i will not ever growth hairy algae and as the result the bad algae like blue green algae will be flourish unless i can keep the nitrate and phospate low. Is this correct?

Right now i want to change to Bare Bottom, many says that BB is much more easier to maintain in quite clean condition, as the debris will ussually accumulate in one/several spot and easily vacuum. Can the BB keep the nitrate and phospste in low level?

The filtration is using DIY wet/dry, the skimmer using Macro needlewheel type, and to reduce nitrate, i want to buy Macro denitrator. So with this kind of filtration and BB setup, can i control my nitrate and phospate?

Please help. Thank you very much for all of you.

[Achilles Tang]

Hi Asfur,

Having a coarse sandbed that accumulates gunk and detritus will encourage more nitrates to build due to decomposition of wastes.

Organic Phosphates are added into your tank by feeding and also released back into the water by mostly dead algae.

A barebottom tank aka Berlin Method will be more work in some sense because you have to siphon the bottom of your tank daily or weekly because it will be terribly unsightly and you also have to remove the detritus before it breaks down.

A living DSB will actually help process detritus (at a slow rate) due to the amount of bacteria it holds and the creatures that live in them. Of course, a properly setup DSB with an anaerobic layer will help to process & reduce nitrates.

A bare bottom will do nothing to reduce nitrates or phosphates.

Wet/dry systems produce lots of nitrates. If you want to use a denitrator, you have to learn how to tune it well. If it is of the correct size, tuned properly and able to cope with how you stock and feed your tank... then a bare bottom tank should work... if you siphon the wastes regularly.

The disadvantage of a BB tank is that you won't get a lot of pods and worms and othe microlife in your tank.

My 2 cents,

AT

[Asfur]

Thank you very much boss. I want to inform you that my tank is F/O setup and no invert at all except the shrimp and small crab. So the problem why i move from CC gravel to BB, is because CC gravel will be a debris and mulk accumulate in few years, so it will make my nitrate become much higher. I am quite happy if i can maintain a nitrate at 10-20 ppm level, cos' i want to growth a lush green hairy algae. Can i achieve that?

Oh ya, is that correct that with high nitrate and phospate i will never growth hairy algae but the result is blue green algae/mat algae. Please explaination. Thanksd again to all of you.

[alanseah]

yup my tank is a DSB with an anaerobic layer

[Achilles Tang]

If you have a high level of dissolved organics, nitrates, phosphates etc... you will grow ANY form of nuisance algae!

I guess for a FOWLR tank... it'll be fine.

[Asfur]

Okay, then why in my past setup, when i use CC as my gravel and it is about 3-4 cm thick, the nitrate is about 70-80 ppm and can reach more than 100 ppm is i'm not changes the water for more than 1 month, i don't know the phospate as i never measure it. When i do a water changes it will going down to 20-30 ppm, but back to the level of 70-80 ppm in short time. And there is blue green algae covering all of my decoration, eventhough in every water changes i vacuum the grvel and siphon the all the algae (even sometimes i take all the rock and srcub it), i can't eliminate the blue green algae, i am very desperate with this condition, so i think may be with BB i can handle this situation. Please explanation.

[Achilles Tang]

What do you use for phosphate removal?

[Asfur]

I use nothing, as i don't know the product that can remove or eliminate phospate. All i do is just water changes to reduce nitrate and phospate.

So according to your analyze, what is the cause of uncontroll blue green algae/mat algae?

Will you give me a way out how to keep nitrate and phospate at desire level, at least not exceed 20 ppm. And as a description : i can't do a water changes every week (it is very exhaust my energy), i don't want to implement DSB/Plenum.

So, please recommend me a gadget to counter measure my problem. I want to buy a macro denitrator, is this product easy to operate and give a best result to control nitrate?

And what other gadget that i can buy in order to reduce phospate?

[Achilles Tang]

There is no gadget to reduce phosphates.

There is however an extremely effective absorbent called Rowaphos. It will reduce your phosphates/silicates to zero if used in large quantities and regularly. It is rather costly though. But many of us use it successfully to control nuisance algae outbreaks.

You can also buy lots of macroalgae to outcompete the nuisance algae.... they however, need lots of light to grow fast. You have to harvest them regularly to prevent them crashing.

As for dealing with nitrates, I suggest you upgrade your skimmer to a very large one... a FOWLR tank needs good skimming because of the large amount of wastes produced by such large predatory fishes.

I have never used a denitrator so I can't advise you how it should work. Do a search on the internet.

Alternatively, you can use AZNO3 but its not a cheap long term solution... you have to use it with a good skimmer.

[Asfur]

That phospate remover are not avaiable in my country, i already check to my LFS, there is Kent Marine Phospate Remover, can it work properly to remove phospate?

So, even if i can keep my gravel quite clean, the phospate and nitrate will always increasing?

Do you know Macro skimmer?

[Achilles Tang]

Hi Asfur... checked your IP... you're from Indonesia?

[Achilles Tang]

Yes, we have macro skimmers here... they are considered entry-level skimmers here... or IMO.

Kent Marine Phospate Remover, yeah.. it should work. But Rowaphos is better as I think it is iron-based rather than aluminium-based.

You have to understand that a tank is essentially a closed system... what you put in... will stay there unless you export it out or process it to something else.

[Asfur]

they are considered entry-level skimmers here

What do you mean by that statement? Which one is the best between Jebo and Macro?

I will try to use Kent Marine, as there is the only product that available in my country.

Okay, then it will be mean that even though the tank substrate are very clean, and the pylofilter are clean regularly every 2-3 days, but if i do not changes/export in what ever ways, then the nitrate and phospate will still increasing (eventhough no debris and dirt) ?

Oh yes, i'm from indo, what's the problem, is there any member in this website that live in indo too, and may be can help me?

[Morgan]

Would suggest you look for better type of skimmer.

If there are none available then Macro will have to do.....buy 1 that uses a needle wheel impeller. It is more efficient than the venturi model. Also choose the largest available unit....

[Asfur]

My skimmer is needle wheel type, but i don't know why the water comes out from 1 of the needle hole. Actually there is 4 hole, 1 is for the airline tubing, and the other 3 i suppose is already sealed by the manufacturer, but why the water are still comes out. What is the toppest part of the water level inside the skimmer that i can adjust?

Are you sure needle wheel is better than ventury type, i suppose ventury is still the best and the most expensive skimmer in the market.

IS MACRO PRODUCT GOOD? WHICH ONE IS BETTER COMPARING TO JEBO SKIMMER?

[andysho]

if i am not wrong...it seems that more people using weipro then macro here....kekeke

and a lot of people always selling weipro skimmer here~~~

[Asfur]

Do you mean that Macro is not good?

[Morgan]

Macro has 2 different models .......1 is a needle wheel the other is venturi. What I'm saying is that the needle wheel is more efficent than the venturi.

If you reall want a very good skimmer then buy a beckett driven.

[andysho]

i just brought one macro skimmer just now leh.. dun tell me not good leh

i will be very heart pain

later i dun even have the chance to put in my sump.. already

need to post for sale in pasir malam

[Asfur]

My model is ASF 200, is it neddlewheel type or ventury type? I ever see the ventury type, but i don't have any idea what kind of needlewheel skimmer, can you tell me or describe the macro neddlewheel model?

[nutx]

My model is ASF 200, is it neddlewheel type or ventury type? I ever see the ventury type, but i don't have any idea what kind of needlewheel skimmer, can you tell me or describe the macro neddlewheel model?

The model comes with the pump is needle wheel.

Yours should be the needle wheel, as the venturi type dun have the 'leaking' hole.