Solution Recommended for....

[dodo]

Jus wanna share this experience wif all:

I didn't test my tank's calcium level at all since i started 2 years ago. When finally, I test it wif Sera test kit in middle of last year(2002)...i got a shock out of my life the reading was 800ppm(almost double the ideal level of calcium in a reef tank).

At that point of time, i dunno how to solve tis problem. So i decided to stop adding calcium supplement and kalkwassar. Two months later...tested water again... wah piang STILL at 800ppm even without adding calcium/kalkwassar. During these period of time, been testing PH/dKH/salinity/ammonia...all tests reveal favourable results...so i suspect is the Sera test kit tat is playing a fool on me. But maybe Sera test kit may give me a slight difference only...still 800ppm is way too high....so I changed 60%-70% water(a high risk)....tested again for consecutively 2mths....sometimes 700ppm....sometimes 800ppm...in the end i dunno wat i should do(at tat pt of time, I dunno there is SRC around)

Reluctantly, I make a trip to Sea Life....ask Sam for his opinion...suggested i buy Salifert test kit...he told me Sera no good...wif no one to turn to for advise...i follow lor go back home wif high hopes of getting a good result but to my disappointment, still the result yielded a 800ppm reading

So back to Sealife again...tis time Sam ask more questions: Filtration system, adding of addictives, tank turnover rate, circulation rate in tank etc...finally he concluded excessive calcium=toxic water, my 70gallon tank need at least 6x of turnover rate to my sump, preferably 10x...calcium 'hiding' somewhere in my tank...increase the turnover so as to flush out the excessive calcium...placed more corals in my tank to absorb the excess calcium calcium level is 430ppm so happy!!!!

Well, i dun really know what contributed to the drop in calcium level...either the corals absorbed the excess calcium, the two PHs place b/w my LR, increased my tank turnover rate or a combination of the above i dunno

Perhaps if anyone one of you encounter the same problem as me in the future or currently have the same, try this method. It may help, though adding more corals maybe insignificant. And I have reason to believe that the black filter floss and polyfilter pads are the excessive calcium being flushed out

[pospeh]

Very interesting . .

I am no expert, but I thought calcium will normally fall out of solution at about 500 ppm. Then you get calcium carbonate 'snow."

My guess is that your magnesium levels are very high (above 1500 ppm), and that is what's keeping your calcium levels so high. (assuming the tests are right!!)

Magnesium and calcium are both on the same row in the periodic tableof elements, and they compete with each other for free carbonate ions, excpet that magnesium is better at bonding with carbonate compared to calcium. So if you had a high magnesium level, that would allow you to have the high ca concentrations.

I know that polyfilters are supposed to change to different colors depending on what molecules it absorbs. i.e., blue for copper, black for phosphates. But I doubt that it is specifically designed to absorb calcium or magnesium, except in trace amounts as an accidental by-product. If it is designed to absorb calcium, I don't think anyone in the hobby would use it at all since it would suck up all the precious ca ions we work so hard to maintain!!

[dodo]

Well, according to Sam, high calcium = toxic water....when I say black polyfilter...i mean REAL black...not brown....never have i encounter such situation b4 black polyfilter....i suppose the excessive calcium have turn toxic and being flush out and absorbed by the polyfilter...i can't really confirm

Ironically, I did not add Magnesium into my tank until recently(abt the same time I increase my tank turnover, placement of 2 small PHs in my LR etc.) Hence I dun thk it's the high level of Magnesium tat is causing the Calcium to be high. I add in Magnesium becos it is stated it will buffer calcium(hmmm...did i read wrongly?)

Sorie, I missed out on the adding of Magnesium part...maybe the Magnesium played a part in lowering my Calcium level as well i really dunno...at a lost during tat time...jus add whatever that i deem neccessary.

Jus glad that everything is fine now

[Phang]

Very interesting . .

I am no expert, but I thought calcium will normally fall out of solution at about 500 ppm. Then you get calcium carbonate 'snow."

That is provided your PH is at the normal readings....

Calcium can get real high without precipitating if PH is low...

This might alos be the secnerio.... too little water movement or low dkH so build up of CO2 in your system, PH goes down and your Cal readings went abnormal....

But when you apply the PHs, improving water circulation, your readings get back to normal....

[Achilles Tang]

Interesting.

How was the livestock doing then? Stressed? Did your coralline algae explode?

I have never heard of someone having 800ppm before.

[spade]

is it technically possible to reach 800ppm?

[dodo]

Interesting.

How was the livestock doing then? Stressed? Did your coralline algae explode?

I have never heard of someone having 800ppm before.

Same for Sam,

He gave me a very very blurr look when I asked him for a solution. Only when he composed himself, he start asking relevant questions and start giving adequate advices...I can tell u his ###### expression is like lost of words...dunno wat happen...dunno wat to advice...that type of blurr look

I am glad to say tat my livestocks are fine at that moment...as usual...not stressed? Nope, CA never explode!

[dodo]

That is provided your PH is at the normal readings....

Calcium can get real high without precipitating if PH is low...

This might alos be the secnerio.... too little water movement or low dkH so build up of CO2 in your system, PH goes down and your Cal readings went abnormal....

But when you apply the PHs, improving water circulation, your readings get back to normal....

Weekly testing of ph/ammonia/dKH/nitrate etc all ok...no abnormalities except for Calcium

Yes...i thk precipitating is the word used my Sam when he told me my Calcium is 'hiding' somewhere

[Tanzy]

Sera testkits seems to give a very high Calcium reading all the time.

Don't understand where the calcium comes from since the saltwater mix only gives about 350-400ppm of Calcium to start with. The crush coral can't possibly dissolve to a large extent at a pH >7.

What's your salinity, dKH and pH reading?

Are you using 3mL of water for testing when using the Salifert calcium testkit?

[dodo]

salinity 1.022, dKH 10, ph 8.2

always maintain at these level using buffers

using 1.5ml for Salifert test kit to obtain 800ppm reading(becos max range for 3ml is only 500ppm)

used 3ml while testing for 430ppm last Sunday

[Tanzy]

Looks normal now. I don't know what caused 800ppm.

[dodo]

Sam have the same response

Wat I am interested is wat eventually caused it to drop ?increased turnover?extra corals?two small PHs placed in between LR? or Magnesium?

Anyway, anything seriously wrong wif high calcium?All my livestocks are intact except for my poor sailfin tang being sucked in by one of my PH

[Tanzy]

Could be natural precipitation on to pipes and pumps or onto calcium carbonate crystals.

[CKS]

My calcium has been at high level of 600ppm for months

Ive tried both Sera & Selifert test kit .. same result

Ph reading is around 8+

The only thing i really add is Alk carbonate buffer .. it drops by about 2mg/l once per week

Stuff in my tank r doing well so far

[wedgee]

Me calcium was at 700++ for a month before too, and i saw the calcium slowly getting 'stuck' onto the glass in small small patches (looked like Coralline at first, but cant be white rite?). All because, like Dodo, i was keen to 'exploit' the goodness of Kalk and added the stuff dilligently w/o testing for levels at all...

Now, after adding one more PH (i think it could help in our cases), upping my KH to above 10 and doing a few water changes, Ca has dropped down to 500+!!!

So the morale of the stories is: "DONT THROW IN ANY ADDITIVES THAT U CANT TEST FOR"

[Tanzy]

Good going wedgee!

[Achilles Tang]

Actually, Wedgee... your quote should come around and slap you right in the face!

YOU SHOULD BE TESTING YOUR CALCIUM, PH, ALK LEVELS!!!

[Tanzy]

AT,

If he is not testing than how does he know whether the dKH or calcium are increasing or decreasing? Did he say he doesn't test in another thread?

[wedgee]

AT, you're confusing me...if i didnt test how i know they were above 700 and have fallen back to 500...

[Tanzy]

Maybe he's smashed again.

AT,

Better check where your phone and glasses are!

[anakjoh]

Wise saying wedgee. BTW, AT, we should keep a list of these "golden rules" maybe we can vote on the ten most important to serve as a guide for reekeeping.

One consolation I get from this thread is Sera is not always wrong. That's because I CAN'T FIND SALIFERT HERE IN KL, SERA EVERYWHERE!

And would you believe it? I haven't found a LFS that has heard of kalkwasser!!! (Only something similar from AZOO)

[ZeRoC00l]

Hmm. my tank as Calcium level of 600.

tested my alk is abt 11-12dkh

changed my water and tested a week later and still 600.

Haven dosed calcium for a long time since i started 2mth + ago weird!?!?!

[yazid]

I have the same problem with Calcium going over 800ppm.

Reason because I'm lazy to do weekly 10% water changes.

dKH, PH and magnesium do play a part in causing this problem.

For Calcium to go extremely high is due to the dKH is too high thus the less the water will hold Calcium "in solution". It will cause snowstom and left calcium stones in your tank thus Calcium will be at high all the time.

To lower the Calcium, use the Calcium Reactor concept. Introduce CO2.

This will reduce the dKH and PH thus releasing Calcium into a solution.

Do be very carefull when doing this method. Do it slow and steady thus avoiding stress to the fish. I use Sweppes Soda Water.

For instructions follow this link:

http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/reef...ef/lowcarb.html

Regarding the test kits, I have used 3 different test kit Sera, , Salifert and all report the same results. So don't get conned to buy the expensive one.

Sera is as good as Salifert.

[Phang]

I have the same problem with Calcium going over 800ppm.

Reason because I'm lazy to do weekly 10% water changes.

dKH, PH and magnesium do play a part in causing this problem.

For Calcium to go extremely high is due to the dKH is too high thus the less the water will hold Calcium "in solution". It will cause snowstom and left calcium stones in your tank thus Calcium will be at high all the time.

To lower the Calcium, use the Calcium Reactor concept. Introduce CO2.

This will reduce the dKH and PH thus releasing Calcium into a solution.

Do be very carefull when doing this method. Do it slow and steady thus avoiding stress to the fish. I use Sweppes Soda Water.

For instructions follow this link:

http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/reef...ef/lowcarb.html

Regarding the test kits, I have used 3 different test kit Sera, <unknown brand>, Salifert and all report the same results. So don't get conned to buy the expensive one.

Sera is as good as Salifert.

Huh????

Thought the calcium tested is in solution...

Those precipitated can be tested too?????

Hmmmm.....

[Tanzy]

I have the same problem with Calcium going over 800ppm.

Reason because I'm lazy to do weekly 10% water changes.

dKH, PH and magnesium do play a part in causing this problem.

For Calcium to go extremely high is due to the dKH is too high thus the less the water will hold Calcium "in solution". It will cause snowstom and left calcium stones in your tank thus Calcium will be at high all the time.

To lower the Calcium, use the Calcium Reactor concept. Introduce CO2.

This will reduce the dKH and PH thus releasing Calcium into a solution.

Do be very carefull when doing this method. Do it slow and steady thus avoiding stress to the fish. I use Sweppes Soda Water.

For instructions follow this link:

http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/reef...ef/lowcarb.html

Regarding the test kits, I have used 3 different test kit Sera, <unknown brand>, Salifert and all report the same results. So don't get conned to buy the expensive one.

Sera is as good as Salifert.

Calcium 'stones' or precipitated calcium won't redissolve into solution at normal tank pH. What's out is out, in fact precipitation will reduce calcium levels instead of increasing it.

High calcium levels is not due to high dKH, in fact, quite the opposite. dKH above normal ranges will depress calcium levels due to precipitation.

Calcium reactors do introduce CO2, decreasing pH and increase dKH and calcium levels.