Newbie starting marine tanks.

[ben loh]

Hi reefers, I'm planning to setup a marine tank. Is either 2ft by 1ft by 2ft tank with 2ft sump or 3ft by 2ft by 2ft with 3ft sump.

Here are some question that need your help to solve it.

1) May I use NSW for the initial start then slowly convert to salt mix?

2) May I do a refugium on my 2ft sump?

3) Is resun 450 chiller enough to chill 3ft by 2ft by 2ft plus .( Deciding between 2ft and 3ft )

4) Is it necessary to have qurantine tank coz if need, i can only fit the 2ft tank. Due to limited space.

5) What are the common issue to look out for when using sump as I'm using for the first time.

Pls feel free to comment.

Thanks in advance.

[Ketchup]

Hi reefers, I'm planning to setup a marine tank. Is either 2ft by 1ft by 2ft tank with 2ft sump or 3ft by 2ft by 2ft with 3ft sump.

Here are some question that need your help to solve it.

1) May I use NSW for the initial start then slowly convert to salt mix?

2) May I do a refugium on my 2ft sump?

3) Is resun 450 chiller enough to chill 3ft by 2ft by 2ft plus .( Deciding between 2ft and 3ft )

4) Is it necessary to have qurantine tank coz if need, i can only fit the 2ft tank. Due to limited space.

5) What are the common issue to look out for when using sump as I'm using for the first time.

Pls feel free to comment.

Thanks in advance.

Just some short answers.. others can help too..

1) yes, prefer as less hassle... can ask them to fill up your spare containers as you will should do a 50% water change subsequently.

2) You can, and should if you have the space. If no space, go look at Eniram's thread.. he has a small DIY box as refugium. Go read up the benefits of having one.

3) No experience with Resun chiller but heard a lot... seems like not reliable, themostat always not accurate.. so pls do some research.. If you opt for Artica, 1/4 or even 1/5 shd be ok for 2ft

4) Not necessary but good to have. You may set it up but ended up not using if lack discipline.

5) Many issues.... but main thing is it must fit all the equipments you wanna run or may run... Be it width, height etc. 2nd is must be high and big enough that the backflow won't cause flood...

[straydum]

1) May I use NSW for the initial start then slowly convert to salt mix?

sure you can. imo nsw as compared to salt mixes aids in the initial bacteria cycle. however the perimeters for nsw fluctuates with the environment so it may be necessary for you to boost or adjust certain perimeters

2) May I do a refugium on my 2ft sump?

a larger sump would give you a greater luxuary of space to work with your equipment, not to mention increasing your total volume making your setup less sensitive to minute changes. there shouldn't be a problem using 2ft sump as long as your plan out carefully the space left for your various equipments after incoporating your refuge.

4) Is it necessary to have qurantine tank coz if need, i can only fit the 2ft tank. Due to limited space.

having a qt is only to your benefit. it saves your tank inhibitants the risk of pests and diseases that can be avoided by qt. your qt need to run 24/7 and be placed near your tank. you can always have a spare tank or container somewhere that can be setup when you need to qt new purchases.

5) What are the common issue to look out for when using sump as I'm using for the first time.

leaking, overflowing, microbubbles in the return comparment, stuff from your refuge clogging up your return pump etc. these are just some that hit me first, there are plenty more that other reefers here can point out

[Solo77]

Just to add - Back flow an issue to look into. Clearance for maintenance.

[cool guy]

Hi bro. Welcum to marine life as hobby. Wat i can advise is tat, try to visit some of e bros here. C their tank n jus copy cat it. It make thing easier for u. N u can ask as many ques as u want to make urself understand tis hobby more. Im sure our bros here don mind people admire their tank... 

Cheers bro...

[comycus]

IMO, main principle for sump is to keep it simple, especially for small sumps where space is a constraint.

1. Internal skimmers operate at a fixed range of water level, so have to take that into account when building sump.

2. Evaporation rate would affect your return pump compartment, make sure you have sufficient buffer or the return pumps would suck air.

3. Cover your filter sock/sponge compartment to prevent splashes.

4. Allow space for future upgrades such as FRs, BP reactor, Ca/Kalkwasser reactors, dosing pumps.

5. Make sure skimmer can fit into sump and removed easily when doing maintenance.

6. You should have sufficient height to stick your head/hands into all areas of the sump, I suggest at least 32" height cabinet.

Good luck in your build. I always recommend a 2 ft wide tank. Resun 450 is underpowered for a 3ft tank, I suggest getting at least 1/4HP chiller if you are using chinese brands. They are normally not as powerful (and more noisy) as the more established brands. Can research on biopellets, many ppl have reported success in nutrient control using them. Less messy compared to running a refugium.

[ben loh]

Thanks everybody for their input and advice. Will take note of it. Bro Ketchup, have seen Eniram's thread DIY Refugium, is a good idea but dun think I will risk to put on top of sump as is only 6mm n afraid tat the sump might give way.

Decided to go for the 2ft tanks, wait till my new house arrive on 2015 then do a 4ft tank. Meanwhile let me get the water parameters right, if not I will be just wasting money here n there...

Anybody is having 2ft tank with sump n able to let me view on your sump setup.

Thanks a lot..

[Ketchup]

Thanks everybody for their input and advice. Will take note of it. Bro Ketchup, have seen Eniram's thread DIY Refugium, is a good idea but dun think I will risk to put on top of sump as is only 6mm n afraid tat the sump might give way.

Decided to go for the 2ft tanks, wait till my new house arrive on 2015 then do a 4ft tank. Meanwhile let me get the water parameters right, if not I will be just wasting money here n there...

Anybody is having 2ft tank with sump n able to let me view on your sump setup.

Thanks a lot..

Good idea Ben.. I suggest you set up your 2 ft in a way that you may be able to keep it even when you have the 4 ft... it can be used as a frag tank, or a LPS tank etc.. You can check out jacky's thread.. his is 2ft cube iirc.

[sunny03]

Thanks everybody for their input and advice. Will take note of it. Bro Ketchup, have seen Eniram's thread DIY Refugium, is a good idea but dun think I will risk to put on top of sump as is only 6mm n afraid tat the sump might give way.

Decided to go for the 2ft tanks, wait till my new house arrive on 2015 then do a 4ft tank. Meanwhile let me get the water parameters right, if not I will be just wasting money here n there...

Anybody is having 2ft tank with sump n able to let me view on your sump setup.

Thanks a lot..

one advise for you is can start to think of what is your rockscape for 4ft... and start looking or collect rocks for it....

as for your 2ft tank.. take it as scapeing for 1 side of a 4ft tank.. so next time when move to 4ft you can move the whole structure over...

Nice shape rocks and light rocks does not comes easily....

[ben loh]

Thanks for comment in advance.

I have come up some layout of the main tank as well as the sump tank. So feel free to comment it.

As for the main tank, I ever saw someone in SRC having the overflow built outside of the tank which is on the top left hand. Just wonder if it is possible to have in this manner and what are the issues to look out for.

As for the sump tank, this is what I can think of. Any ideas is welcome.

Some queries to seek ur advice

1) What kind of skimmer is recommended for a 2ft tank?

2) Is it better to have tosque piping install in the overflow to reduce the water noise?

3) As memtion by bro comycus, is better to use biopellet than refugium coz of limited space and less messy. what is the damage like and what equipment I need to have?

4) As for the return pump, can I use ehiem cannister coz I have 2217 n 2215. Thought of making use of it and same time can add some medium inside?

5) Is it a must to add carbon in the sump in the initial setup or after the cycling period?

[sunny03]

For your 2ft cube what is your budget for it?

Is it full hight cabinate tank or open top rimless concept?

How many viewing side you planing to have???

Where you going to place your tank as this affect your tank design and nos of viewing side.

usually ppl hide the external overflow box at the non viewing side...

[ben loh]

Bro sunny03, is not 2ft cube, is 2 by 1 by 2 and not using cabinet as I have a stainless steel stand.

The only area that I can place is at the end of the kitcher area where washing machine is. I know is not a good area as too much sun light etc.

[jackywongto]

Hi Ben

Two thumbs up for doing your own research before committing.

let me just pen some PERSONAL thoughts which I hope will be useful to you.

Tank size

the more volume the better. I strongly encourage you to start with a 2 feet cube tank. 1 feet cube width will be too narrow. difficult to scape and lesser volume.

rimless or hooded

I prefer rimless tank. easy to maintain and easily assessible (especially when placing of corals or scaping). Tank with hoods have its pro though. you can hide the lightset and have less stray lights. for rimless, you will need to hang your lights. either get brackets to mount on wall or hang from ceiling. What lights are you using?

refugiums

I would do away with this simply because of space constraints. For small tanks, it is better to keep things simple.

If you have refugiums in the sump, you will have lights in there and algae will grow on your sump wall. something I really dislike. If space permits, you might want to consider putting an FR (filled with rowas) and a BP reactor there.

Overflow

internal or external? Have external overflow gives you the full real estate in the tank for rocks placement and scape flexibity. internal overflow eats into tank space. you will have extra corner to deal with, more scaping challenges and more dead spots possiblity.

Will be good to have durso in the overflow to reduce the noise level. There are also other methods (filling overflow box with bio balls etc.) but I would suggest durso.

Return pump

ditch the cannister. just use an eheim return pimp... 1250 or 1260 in your sump for return.

Sump

Get filter socks & holder from Dr Evil. Economical and effective. Ensure that your filter sock area is enclosed. When socks clogged, this area will have lots of splashing. Keep them confined.

Have baffle plates just before your return pump compartment. put some sponge there. can help to remove any microbubbles from skimmer

Ensure that your tank maker gives sufficient allowance in the cabinet height to allow for skimmer cup removal.

QT

QT is a good practice if you have space and time. I do not have either. So the fishes I bought goes straight into my tank.

metal stand

bro, get rid of your metal stand. over time, 4 - 6 months, it will start rusting. just spend a few more bucks and build your cabinet together. Worth it in the long run. It will cost more if you build only a cabinet later on when you wish to change. My first tank was a 4 footer on wrought iron stand.... so I know.....

cost & service

contact a few tank makers to get quotes. talk to them and see who you are comfortable with. Always take comments/ feedbacks from forum with a pinch of salt. you nvr know what are the relationship/ political connection the tank owner has with the vendors. Mods/owner of this forum, friends of vendors MAY get preferential treatment and hence their good experience which average reefer will not get. Also check the pricing from a few vendors.... I have seen people build a 6 footer for 5k for just sump, piping, tank and cabinet while others quote for just in excess of 3k.... so the difference can be quite huge. When I buid my 2 footer, I had quotes ranging from 1k - 1.5k for exactly the same specs. Cheap doesn't mean you have the best deal and Expensive does not mean you are getting the cream of the crop either. Bottom line is... do your homework thoroughly. you are spending your hard earn money.

more talking points....

- Sandbed or barebottom? sand grade

- Chiller?

- lights? T5 , LEDs? mounting kit?

- What type of scape you like? liverocks from ?

- livestock? what type of corals? LPS, SPS, softies, what type of fishes?

- skimmer? I am using SM161 and it works great. The smaller version SM 121 should work fine too if you going for smaller tank size.

- wavemaker?

- cabinet type - sit in or flushed?

- black silicon or clear silicon, normal or crystal class? glass thickness?

[comycus]

I have seen people build a 6 footer for 5k for just sump, piping, tank and cabinet while others quote for just in excess of 3k.... so the difference can be quite huge. When I buid my 2 footer, I had quotes ranging from 1k - 1.5k for exactly the same specs. Cheap doesn't mean you have the best deal and Expensive does not mean you are getting the cream of the crop either. Bottom line is... do your homework thoroughly. you are spending your hard earn money.

OMG OMG OMG! 5k for 6 footer!?!? install golden tap ah?

[desideria]

lol Comy, gold tap is Tt Durai la.... LOL gimme titanium tap.

but otherwise, very good of you, Ben to take the time and effort to read up and ask for feedback here. Of course end of the day it's your own decision what you want but at least you're AWARE.

Personally I prefer external overflow as it frees up space in the tank unless there are some location issues or asthetic issues which you feel strongly for which prevents you having an external overflow. I realise your external overflow plan is at the side.. why not at the back instead?

I wouldn't use a canister either. With a 2 feet cube, get a sump.... your life will be easier and you can do far more things in your sump vs a canister. A Canister becomes a nitrate factory after a while.

[TayHongSiang]

OMG OMG OMG! 5k for 6 footer!?!? install golden tap ah?

drama lah u...omg omg..

[cool guy]

Yo ben... Since tis is ur first tank n ur new to marine, y not u get a 2nd hand tank from e bros here in p/mlm section. Tis wil save u alot of $$$. N i don find e need for u to buy a custom made tank as u jus keepin a small tank. wher r u staying bro. If in e east, u can always dropby my house n i be more then hapi to help u wit tis hobby. There are alot of other thing tat u need to take note in e long run. Don waste too much $$$ on ur first tank. Not worth it. Once u get use to tis line, then maybe u can make ur own custom make tank. Tis is jus my opinion. Don mean e bad way bro. Cheers... 

[ben loh]

Thanks a lot for the comments , the reason for not getting cabinet is that the area will go thru washing the floor n the cabinet will get wet n in long run, I'm afraid that the quality of the wood will spoil.

The reason for using cannister insted of pump is that previously I was into planted tank for 6-7 years so now I want to try into marine setup and have 3 cannister spare.

Good point that Desideria have pointed out, maybe I shall do the external overflow on the back of the tank.

This is what I can gather on my mind for my new tank:

1) Bottom - Live sand

2) Tank with bracing n white silicon resting on stainless steel tank

3) Using 4x24w T5 lightset

4) Resun 450 chiller

5) Scape with LR

6) wavemaker

7) Refugium or Biopellets. still thinking, coz have to check out the equipment for BP n wats the damages like in long run.

8) ehiem return pump

9) Skimmer using reef octopus or Bubble Magus or Skimz. ( any comment on this is welcome )

10) Mainly LPS and soft corals

11) livestock haven decide but I know is limited selection and limited pieces to keep.

Do add in anything that I have miss out.

Question to ask reefers with sand layout, will it be good to put undergravel then live sand or just live sand only. And what is the height recommended.

[pokmingsheng]

Yo ben... Since tis is ur first tank n ur new to marine, y not u get a 2nd hand tank from e bros here in p/mlm section. Tis wil save u alot of $$. N i don find e need for u to buy a custom made tank as u jus keepin a small tank. wher r u staying bro. If in e east, u can always dropby my house n i be more then hapi to help u wit tis hobby. There are alot of other thing tat u need to take note in e long run. Don waste too much $$ on ur first tank. Not worth it. Once u get use to tis line, then maybe u can make ur own custom make tank. Tis is jus my opinion. Don mean e bad way bro. Cheers... 

agree totally with what cool guy said...

when i started off, almost 90% of my setup was 2nd hand...

partly due to the fact that i was still a student then, limited budget...

2nd hand items might not last you that long (some do...),

but at least they would give you a "feel" of this hobby,

how is it like, the commitment in your time and $$ that you have to fork out for...

once you get "hooked" on to this hobby,

i believe eventualy, you'll start getting new stuff,

and you'll know which are the equipments best suited for your tank..

what I dread most is to see new reefers spending a bomb on new big tanks,

buying the top end equipments,

not realising what are they seeking for.

eventually, they find that this hobby is not for them,

decom after a few months...

and just my 2cents,

do away with external canister filter...

eventually you'll know why...

i started off with using canister filter as well

all the best!

[raymus]

canister will be a Nitrate factory if you didnt maintain.

No doubt some reefers have success with canister, but nobody know the story behind..

I or I should say WE strongly suggest u get a sump.

No worries for e wood, unless u splash water to wash your flooring. Get changai wood for long and stable run..

If your tank is small, take a look at my thread. with skimmer, fr , pumps, auto top up, reservoir , chiller pump,even refugium inside my sump.

Importance is design ur tank base on the type of equipment dimension u be getting. Get a powerful skimmer once and for all.

I'm in e west. As cool guy mention, welcome to drop by my use too for some ideas.

[sunny03]

Bro sunny03, is not 2ft cube, is 2 by 1 by 2 and not using cabinet as I have a stainless steel stand.

The only area that I can place is at the end of the kitcher area where washing machine is. I know is not a good area as too much sun light etc.

If you are getting 2*1*2 i dont encourage you to custom build a tank...

- it is costly to custom build such small tank

- low re-sale value when you want to sell...

- you just started to keep SW so you dont really know if you are into it...

- you are getting a new flat in a few years time

most of us seen FW convert to SW and within a year or less they decom...

I used to keep planted and aro before SW and i can said that it is totally different. FW setup and forget somehow but SW reef tank a slight mistake you cant sleep...

[sunny03]

Thanks a lot for the comments , the reason for not getting cabinet is that the area will go thru washing the floor n the cabinet will get wet n in long run, I'm afraid that the quality of the wood will spoil.

The reason for using cannister insted of pump is that previously I was into planted tank for 6-7 years so now I want to try into marine setup and have 3 cannister spare.

Good point that Desideria have pointed out, maybe I shall do the external overflow on the back of the tank.

This is what I can gather on my mind for my new tank:

1) Bottom - Live sand

2) Tank with bracing n white silicon resting on stainless steel tank

3) Using 4x24w T5 lightset

4) Resun 450 chiller

5) Scape with LR

6) wavemaker

7) Refugium or Biopellets. still thinking, coz have to check out the equipment for BP n wats the damages like in long run.

8) ehiem return pump

9) Skimmer using reef octopus or Bubble Magus or Skimz. ( any comment on this is welcome )

10) Mainly LPS and soft corals

11) livestock haven decide but I know is limited selection and limited pieces to keep.

Do add in anything that I have miss out.

Question to ask reefers with sand layout, will it be good to put undergravel then live sand or just live sand only. And what is the height recommended.

you can get a 2nd hand JBJ tank there are a few reefer selling .. size is slightly bigger... get the hang of SW before you commit to it

[ben loh]

Thanks to Bro raymus. went to see his 1.5 cube, WOW... is cool n beautiful, have a long chat with him n learn quite a fair bit in marine setup n keeping marine. Decided to go for 2ft cube. Any recommendation of maker that I should give a visit.

Thanks in advance..

[ben loh]

Hi Everybody, just wan to hear from u guys abt the skimmer that u r using. For a 2ft cube, wat kind of skimmer is recommended or I should be looking into it. In my mind. I can think of a few brands, Reef octopus, Bubble magus, Skimz, Deltec.

Thanks everybody...

[sunny03]

let us know what is your budget of this tank and most of us will advise you base on it....