Setting up shop for a Rimless 3by3by2

[LittleBurger]

Getting a real hobby

Been reefing since 2004(probably Finding Nemo effect),so bought off the tank from a marine shop(closed liao) at Farmart. For these years, didn't really put my heart & soul & $$ into it. Just getting by. Buy coral & LS, if die off, then buy again, not enough devotion. Thankfully, the Nemo effect does not wear off.

Reefing is always fascinating cos you always find strange stuffs growing in your tank, unlike freshwater.

Now that I've grown older(menopause), I feel that I need to have a true hobby, a hobby that will "enhance" my family times. Spending a few grands on car parts & only utilizing 2hrs a day does not make sense to an old man now. Furthermore, my CO would prefer I spend something at home than on car...

Thoughts during planning

Initally was planning for a 4x3x2 tank with external overflow, am curious why there are reefers who decomm. Was wondering did they see something at the later part of their reefing journey? Will I experience the same issues? Finally time & money comes to mind. Time = maintenance(probably only water changing) & $$ = power bills.

Bigger tank needs more vol of water change, more lighting, higher rated chiller.

Went to Madpetz & saw Ken's 2 ft cube. Though it's 2 ft, somehow it looks "full". He has another 4x2.5 tank too. Choosing a right size tank that complements the room is to me, quite important. Somehow asthetically, there is a form of ratio, like the golden ratio. too huge a tank that blocks our walking paths seems to create a frustrating effect(maybe like fengshui).

Therefore, the decision come down to a 3x3x2 rimless with external overflow & 4.5ft cabinet.

Choosing a tank maker

There are only 3 "boyfriends" A,B & C to choose from. Initially my heart was for A, but I feel that I am courting for the love of A, instead of the guy doing the chasing.

Then comes to B. B offers me "top grade glass heels made in japan" but the heels is still greenish in color. To me, dun really care if the heel is made where or top grade, as long as it's not crystal clear, it's normal heels. This boyfriend is always busy, make appointment for dinner liao, called to remind him the day b4 but tell me change other day. If I never called to confirm appointment, I guess I would be sitting in the restaurant by myself.

Finally, it is C. C is a patience & humble boyfriend. Gives me my crystal glass heels without me selling off my bras for it.

Without any hesitation, I know my choice is C....

Tank layout planning

With the size of tank & cabinet in mind, I paid a visit to my tank maker with my basic design & questions.

Got the measurements of the cabinet & sump thereafter. With them, I marked my floor planning.

[TayHongSiang]

Galfriend C will send you design layouts...u have to tell "her" what you want n "she" will draft u some drawings

[desideria]

btw why 3 FR?

[wilsontantw]

Nicely done bro... suggestion.. ever considered using a compressor for ur tank?

this will free up more space in your cabinet area.. which u can use for storage or QT.

[LittleBurger]

Galfriend C will send you design layouts...u have to tell "her" what you want n "she" will draft u some drawings

. Just like an interior designer. Pics tell a thousand words. Able to spot errors & make changes more easily & clearly.

U machiam know who's my gf C......

[LittleBurger]

btw why 3 FR?

pura carbon, POx4 & biopellets. Want to keep SPS, LPS & NPS. So probably feeding more & try to prevent nutrients from staying in water for too long. Not sure if it will work. Took the layout from Ken.

So overboard to get 3?

[LittleBurger]

Nicely done bro... suggestion.. ever considered using a compressor for ur tank?

this will free up more space in your cabinet area.. which u can use for storage or QT.

How's your compressor performance? U put above your current aircon compressor?

[wilsontantw]

How's your compressor performance? U put above your current aircon compressor?

So long the heat is not in the house.. it's great!

One less pump, so less heat. Or u can use the same pump to power your 3xFR...

Placement best to be recommended by the compressor installer.

But if u can accept the heat in the house, a 1/3hp will do the job, it takes about double the time to chill the water.

[TayHongSiang]

. Just like an interior designer. Pics tell a thousand words. Able to spot errors & make changes more easily & clearly.

U machiam know who's my gf C......

[jackywongto]

Hi Littleburger....

Kudos to you for doing your due diligience on selection of tank maker. You definitely gets to keep your bra unlike some of the newbies here.

Some thoughts for food.

carbon - you can just leave them in a filter bag, there is no need for FR.

Get a biopellet reactor and a FR for rowaphos.

good job and keep us posted.

camping here....

[yellowtang]

Hope to see more of your new set up, and a little of your 3 cup bra.

power on !

[LittleBurger]

Was informed that tank delivery will be postponed to next fri on this wed....

Was actually looking forward to today to start working off the tank... alas... bo pian....

Also my water pressure not enough for the 5 stage RO/DI(only 12plus PSI nia) so need to spend $ for the booster pump... Awaiting for booster pump for the RO unit.

Bleed too much $$ so cannot buy caribsea sand... bought from qianhu the cheap cheap classica aragonite %5.50 per 5kg pack.

In the mean time just put inside current tank, hopefully make it "live", shorten the cycling time.... i hope.

Got 2 stalks of green off siloso beach. R they mangrove shoots?

As I will be putting my chiller inside my cabinet, got a 20cm by 20cm plastic pc fan to be used as a exhaust fan. (Power is 3.36w, Cost $25. Brand coolmaster. Bought from SLS,F*w***. Actually there's a shop in level 5 selling at $15, but LL buy already.)

Got another 2 unit of 14cm by 14cm plastic exhaust fan(Power is 1.68w, cost $18, brand coolmaster. Bought from F*w***. Also a shop in level 5 is selling cheaper) either to pump air into the sump area or vacuum air from sump area with 6" air duct(Cost $17. Bought from bukit batok enterprise hub, level 1. Cool air systems trading 01-147).

Got a pc of concrete drill($4.15, homefix) to drill LR. Got some acrylic spoons from daiso to cannibalize the stalks to be inserted into the LR's drilled holes. This should join the LRs together. Learnt this method from reefcentral.

Got great excuse to buy a cheap weighing machine($13.90, selffix at vivo. CO said watson selling $10...) telling CO we can use to monitor our weight.... of cos it's for me to use to weigh the LRs. Going to try to get the amount of water displace by the LRs, substrate & equipments. Not sure if it is necessary.

Manage to find a acrylic shop Ying kwang acrylic trading at enterprise hub(48 Toh Guan Road East #01-136

Enterprise Hub Singapore 608586). Have not tried its services yet. Going to make a base stand for my skimmer to get the recommended water level submersion. For those staying in the west might find it more convenient.

[LittleBurger]

Got a call to go down and view my tank yesterday evening. It was a hard nite for me... can't sleep. Stayed awake till 3plus am then forced myself to get some rest.

Got chided by my CO behaving like a little boy...heh heh heh.

Armed with a camera and went down today. Pls remember to tear a parking coupon just in case. Nearly got 3 reds flying off.

There it is....

Slowly went thru the piping connections with Uncle Dan & his party, trying to figure out the best orientation to maximise human ergonomics & minimize space wastage.

Somehow didn't go for lunch but didn't feel hungry at all...

[digibee]

Great tank coming along nicely......

Cheers!

[Eniram]

Wow nice build there little bugger!

Point to note, since your return pipes are so low, do remember to drill a small hole just below the water line. Reason being if you were to off the return pumps tt little hole will help stop e water from draining all way where your return pipe is.

Hope you get e pic.

[desideria]

NICe little burger!!!! good planning... you know what you want ... the design is honestly not to my personal preference but to each his own... as long as you're happy.

Btw, could you explain why your returns are so low? Is there a reason for that? do you have a catch valve (besides the points raised by Eniram)to prevent backflow of water should there be a trip or a pump fails? Otherwise the water level in your tank will fall until there!!!

Although I admire your planning for a QT.. you would need to set up a small light as well as some flow/ filtration for the tank if it's really going to be for QT. You can't really use it to put your NSW and then put that in your main tank if you're QT-ing a fish at the same time right? Perhaps you could share with us how / methods you intend to use that for.

like black cabinets.

[comycus]

The build looks beautiful! Lots of good ideas in your super custom built tank bro! I particularly like the return pipes placement. Do make sure the small hole is drilled in to prevent back siphon. I'm not entirely sure how the middle underflow works, care to share?

I'm currently running a teco tr20 (1/3)hp on my 3x2x2 and it takes approximately 1hr to pull down my temperature by 1 degree. Not sure how a tr15 would perform in a larger tank.

So have you decided on your lights yet?

[Ketchup]

Very interesting build... with regards to the QT, like desi, I am wondering how it will work if you want it to be an ATO also... Also, for ATO, usually you will top up with RO/DI water... so unless you intend to freshwater "soak" your fish, I can't see how you using for both purposes.. One more thing, the main reason for QT is to separate the fish from the system, not just separate the fish. If you want to separate the fish, a small beta box will do.

By connecting the QT to your main system, it really defeat the purpose of doing a QT. Hope you can work around this..

[LittleBurger]

NICe little burger!!!! good planning... you know what you want ... the design is honestly not to my personal preference but to each his own... as long as you're happy.

Btw, could you explain why your returns are so low? Is there a reason for that? do you have a catch valve (besides the points raised by Eniram)to prevent backflow of water should there be a trip or a pump fails? Otherwise the water level in your tank will fall until there!!!

Although I admire your planning for a QT.. you would need to set up a small light as well as some flow/ filtration for the tank if it's really going to be for QT. You can't really use it to put your NSW and then put that in your main tank if you're QT-ing a fish at the same time right? Perhaps you could share with us how / methods you intend to use that for.

like black cabinets.

The reason my returns are low is cos normally top & mid section flow is already covered by wavemaker(vortech pump) as their spread is wide. However for bottom flow, normally it's weaker. Adding another vortech adds cost, and my wavemaker is off at nite. It also seems like once my wavemaker is off, particles will subside at the bottom. So I was thinking why not have the bottom area keep stirring throughout the day. That's why I placed my return so low.

Been asking around here about how to prevent the backflow to sump if pump kaput. Got the advices from the reefers here & from Coral Reef to drill a hole at the top of return line.

For the QT, didn't know need a light. .... Was thinking to just add a airstone in it.

Normally I buy NSW from Coral farm, one trip buy 4 packs. Currently I hold 1 bag up, cut the corner then bend down & pour into sump.... extremely tedious & "watery" biz.

So this QT tank actually has a pvc pipe & valve that leads to the sump. So I will put a puncturing device inside the tank & put the bag into the QT. Once the bag is punctured, the water will flow down to the sump. But since now want to do swee swee, maybe going to do salt mix rather than NSW cos been hearing NSW not good.

So the QT can only be used for NSW only when there's no fish inside.

[LittleBurger]

The build looks beautiful! Lots of good ideas in your super custom built tank bro! I particularly like the return pipes placement. Do make sure the small hole is drilled in to prevent back siphon. I'm not entirely sure how the middle underflow works, care to share?

I'm currently running a teco tr20 (1/3)hp on my 3x2x2 and it takes approximately 1hr to pull down my temperature by 1 degree. Not sure how a tr15 would perform in a larger tank.

So have you decided on your lights yet?

Initial planning stage was to have a "non PVC" & pumps tank. Means that u only see the corals,fish rocks. But making a box to contain the vortech so as to hide it, is a risk I can't take as i'm afraid I will be limiting the vortech's efficiency.

So LL see the vortech propeller. For hiding the return pipe, my wishful child thinking cannot work. So tank maker will try to minimize the exposure. Already got idea to hide my return pipe but not urgent to do it now.

My external overflow is a Y shaped so as to cater for my vortech pump installation. I read that for overflow, it is best to have the full width of the tank for surface skimming. Surface got many "la sup". Not sure how true is that. But viewing at Ah beng's tank(full width overflow) confirm my doubts. So I wanted full width overflow but if my overflow is a full width rectangular block, then I can't install my vortech pump. So the overflow shaped became a Y shaped.

I wanted to have underflow for better detrius exportation. My overflow is a Y shaped, overflow is 18" wide. So my underflow can only take the same width as my external overflow width. To make the underflow, a piece of glass is cut & installed on the inside of tank, facing the external overflow. Then this form a small thin box. I will take close up pics once the tank is delivered. As I am very particular about getting a as close as possible 3x3 cube, I was told by Uncle Dan that I will lose 6mm of internal width. So Uncle Dan extended a bit of the tank width to "compensate" this "flaw"....

My chiller temp setpt is at 27.5deg. So far I observe my chiller takes about 1hr to run too. I bought a room thermometer & my living room temp is 28-29. What is yr return pump brand?

Previously I was using a haelia 100watts as return & ehiem 1262 as my old skimmer pump. After I upgraded my skimmer, I threw away my 7yr old haelia(should keep for emergency ) . Used ehiem 1262 as return. Skimmer pump wattage is 27watts. I notice my chiller kicking less often & even kick in, it takes shorter time. However, i'm waiting for next yr's summer period & see how's the chiller running. Am contemplating to use dry ice as a supplementary chilling source.

I'm hoping my TR15 dun "surprise" my in the negative direction.

I've got 1 unit of radion. Am planning only 1 unit as I'm concern about power consumption. Also I want mixed reef whereby the part which is brightly lit will be SPS, slightly lit will be LPS, NPS & totally no light coverage will be NPS. This is just a vision & fat hope. Dun know if filtration system can cope.

[LittleBurger]

Very interesting build... with regards to the QT, like desi, I am wondering how it will work if you want it to be an ATO also... Also, for ATO, usually you will top up with RO/DI water... so unless you intend to freshwater "soak" your fish, I can't see how you using for both purposes.. One more thing, the main reason for QT is to separate the fish from the system, not just separate the fish. If you want to separate the fish, a small beta box will do.

By connecting the QT to your main system, it really defeat the purpose of doing a QT. Hope you can work around this..

The QT tank is a standalone tank with a drainage pipe with a valve to the sump. Initially is planned for my NSW replacement routine. So was thinking if not using it then can use as a QT.

So didn't really plan if this NSW tank can double up as a QT tank. It came at a later stage of "bao ka liao". So after Desi pointed out need light, probably need to buy a small clip on light & a airpump.

[LittleBurger]

.... stands for "Or Bak Kart"...

"Kun Bey Loh"

Countdown about 8hrs....

[comycus]

Now I understand the underflow. I was kinda worried coz without that piece of glass inside the overflow box, it wouldn't work! Do make sure that the overflow teeth is set at least 2-3" higher than tt piece of glass, or due to water pressure, the underflow might reduce the efficiency of your overflow.

Not sure what grade sand you bought. I do suggest going BB. Probability of sandstorm in your tank is high.

What mode are you planning to use on Vortech? with all your flow coming from 1 side of the tank, it might be quite laminar instead of turbulent.

I'm currently running 1260, compact 3000, compact 1000 and aquabee 2000/1. My previous 3x2x2 build was run by a tr15, and that took approximately 1.5-2 hrs to cool down 1.5deg with Deltec MCE600, aquabee 2000, 2000/1, tunze 6025 and tunze nano wavemaker. My concern is not how long it takes before chiller kicks in but how long it takes to cool down to the set temperature to reduce heat generated in the house.

IMO, your tank would be severely underlit with 1 unit of radion, not nice aesthetically. it would be better to create shady areas with overhangs and caves. But if you are happy with the light spread, go for it.

Start the countdown!

[LittleBurger]

Now I understand the underflow. I was kinda worried coz without that piece of glass inside the overflow box, it wouldn't work! Do make sure that the overflow teeth is set at least 2-3" higher than tt piece of glass, or due to water pressure, the underflow might reduce the efficiency of your overflow.

Not sure what grade sand you bought. I do suggest going BB. Probability of sandstorm in your tank is high.

What mode are you planning to use on Vortech? with all your flow coming from 1 side of the tank, it might be quite laminar instead of turbulent.

I'm currently running 1260, compact 3000, compact 1000 and aquabee 2000/1. My previous 3x2x2 build was run by a tr15, and that took approximately 1.5-2 hrs to cool down 1.5deg with Deltec MCE600, aquabee 2000, 2000/1, tunze 6025 and tunze nano wavemaker. My concern is not how long it takes before chiller kicks in but how long it takes to cool down to the set temperature to reduce heat generated in the house.

IMO, your tank would be severely underlit with 1 unit of radion, not nice aesthetically. it would be better to create shady areas with overhangs and caves. But if you are happy with the light spread, go for it.

Start the countdown!

I got 1 pack of 18kg carib sea New oolite sand about 1-2mm size from madpetz plus grade 5 aragonite from qianhu. Yes, u r right. High change of sand storm. It's hard to judge at what height should i place my return pipe. Ken(madpetz) had suggested to put in some fine sand on the bottom of the tank and see later where the fine sand gathers. From this, I can put the bigger sizes sand & fine sizes at the respective location. But sometimes, nature got its own way. Just like my clown fish when it want to spawn, it just sweep the sand up & flying.

I only got 1 Mp40wES. Currently in nutrient export mode. My 2 return outlets will have 45deg angle attachments. So will play around if should i direct them pointing each other or away. Hopefully it can minimize the sandstorm.

How's the performance of compact 3000? I like the energy efficiency.

Here comes the tank....

[LittleBurger]

Most important piping layout rule.....

REMEMBER, Do NOT have any piping at skimmer area during your planning.

Overlook this. With the big valve & the PVC piping at the skimmer section, installing & removing the skimmer, skimmer cup & maybe raising the skimmer upwards for the recommended water level would be extremely difficult or impossible.

Luckily it is spotted by CR uncle before water is added.

Waiting for him to drop by tomolo to amend it towards the right.