Water circulation

[nannochloropsis]

Ok, I know, there have been bits and pieces of this topic posted, but what is the ideal water circulation for reef, esp SPS and clams tank? or is there such a thing?

i've read from RC, the more the better - but given tight budget (almost shoe-string), what is the water circulation that you have been using and your experience?

[Tanzy]

SPS involves lotsa water movement. I've got about 12000 l/h going at any one time. The currents alternate every 5.5 hours to simulate tidal movement. I'll actually prefer more but the tank is too shallow and the sand is getting stirred up. Although 12000 l/h sounds like a lot, the water flow is low velocity but high volume. If it is the other way round, it will be a hurricane!

Clams won't appreciate too much movement. If the current is too strong they won't open up because it might damage their mantle.

[pospeh]

Water movement is very important in a reef tank. It brings oxygen and nutrients to the corals while taking away waste products.

The rule of thumb is that the pump be able to circulate 5 times the volume of the tank in an hours. So for a 100 gallon tank, you would need a pump rated at 500 gallons/hour.

[mv3i]

that's a good rule of thumb ... but you have to consider the rating of the pump ( H max ) to deliver the water back to the tank ( overflow ) .... too long/high for the return ... the pump might not be able to do the job too....

[nannochloropsis]

Tanzy, is Tunze the only pump that can do low velocity but high volume? Are there cheaper alternatives?

Pospeh, thanks for the tip - I'm aware of this. Currently, I'm having a 400 litres with 3 x 1000 litre/hour aquabee pumps. So, theoretically, I have about 7.5 times. IMO, I don't think this is a good circulation for SPS.

Tanzy, I suppose your SPS is growing very well, assuming other variables are constant.

Anybody out there can share more of your experience/

Thanks

[Achilles Tang]

Reeftecs!

[Phang]

Heh heh...

AT recommended me Reeftecs when he saw my reef...

Agreed with him and now waiting for him to get his contacts for the PE pump.....

Hope with the reeftec, I would be able to get some strong circulation...

[chanbi]

I have been trying to read up on the Tunze stream vs reeftec (low velocity but high vol). There are some negative report/discussion on the reeftec. Esp on the PE-1 pump reliability in SW. A alternative is recommended (CAL E-200 pump) but when i searched for it, it is stated that it is also not suitable for SW?? http://www.coastalpond.com/web1/calniagara.html

Some review on the stream vs reeftec (extract from Tanzy's thread)

http://www.reeftank.com/html/turbellestream.html

Some discussion in RC.. http://www.reeftec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=76

So far anyone has hear anything about the stream apart from the pricing? and actually a lot of wiring as well...

[nannochloropsis]

Ok, either Reeftec or Tunze but why choose these to create good circulation?

Chanbi, thanks for the links - will try to digest those later tonight.

you may be wondering why am I asking all this...

simply I'm seriously thinking of upgrading my 4 footer to a 5ft full of acros and clams. My 4ft tanks is really overcrowded now.

So, b4 I embark on this ambitious project, I am finding out more on these 3 areas;

1. water circulation

2. lighting

3. sump design

Are there anything else that I have missed out?

[Tanzy]

You missed calcium reactor.

[nannochloropsis]

Hi Tanzy,

Yes, I have that already. And denitrator as well

So, why Tunze or Reeftec for circulation? is it due to high circulation with low wattage vis-a-vis the normal circulation pump?

Thanks once again.

[spiff]

cos both can provide random movement need by sps

[Tanzy]

Skip the denitrator and get a DSB or plenum. Cheaper and hassle free.

Water movement per wattage, Streams and Reeftec are one of the most efficient. Also the water movement is not high impact like conventional powerheads.

[nannochloropsis]

Denitrator works for me for the past 2 years - almost zero nitrate, so I don't think I will skip this. Furthermore hassle free once the drip is right - just add the deniballs once a year or longer.

IMO, calcium reactor is more troublesome - can shoot up phosphate if not careful. Had this terrible experience once recently but manage to control it back.

Ok, I will start looking at these 2 being high water movement and very efficient - hmm cost savings

[TTBoy]

hi nannochloropsis,

which denitrator are u using?

[Achilles Tang]

Personally, the price difference between streams and reeftecs are soooooo far apart... but in terms of performance, they are about the same.

THe only thing is that reeftecs don't have the fancy bells and whistles like variable speed/pulsing and the controller.

If I have the $$$$, sure.... I would like a Tunze Turbelle Stream set!

But $2300 for circulation is ahem... beyond me.

[nannochloropsis]

Hi AT,

What is the indicative price of Reeftec then?

TTBoy, I'm using the Aquamedic denitrator.

[DragonGoby]

Think it's close to US$100, from the review site. BTW, is it advisable to place the Reeftecs on alternating on/off cycles of 2 hrs apart? If it's just left on for the whole time won't the current be laminar still, and not random?

Regards,

Hong Yee

[hongqixian]

Skip the denitrator and get a DSB or plenum. Cheaper and hassle free.

Water movement per wattage, Streams and Reeftec are one of the most efficient. Also the water movement is not high impact like conventional powerheads.

Tanz,

I think that since that DSBs always have the risk factor (should the sand be disturbed somehow, it would be much safer and better to use the denitrator since the guy has it and it works. Waste is always better outside the tank than in.

[Tanzy]

I think there are more people without problems with DSB than those who have and are making a lot of noise about it. I'm using a plenum system and according to Julian Sprung, it's superior to a DSB.

One more piece of equipment is one more thing to go wrong.

[nannochloropsis]

I think there are more people without problems with DSB than those who have and are making a lot of noise about it. I'm using a plenum system and according to Julian Sprung, it's superior to a DSB.

One more piece of equipment is one more thing to go wrong.

Well, as you know, the best way to control nitrate is actually to do water exchange at regular intervals. This is what I have read and most experienced reefers told me.

The alternative, is either using a DSB method or a denitrator . IMO, both works since I have the first hand experience using the denitrator and many of those that I personally know who have used this swear that it works.

Likewise, I have also read so many reefers here and RC have successful DSBs.

Which one is better - well, it is matter of personal choice and budget of course. Both are hassle free. But again, both have the limitations. We have to be aware of them, that is the most important thing.

If we are worried that denitrator is another piece of equipment that can go wrong, well we should be also worried about all other equipment that we have put into the systems- from pumps, to calcium reactors, to lights to protein skimmers etc. then we never go to sleep in peace.

As what I was told by one experienced reefer, take it easy and enjoy your aquarium, that is what it is meant to be in the first place.

[Tanzy]

Well, as you know, the best way to control nitrate is actually to do water exchange at regular intervals. This is what I have read and most experienced reefers told me.

I do not know.

Assuming that a system increases in nitrates at a rate of 10mg a week.

A 20% water change will result in 8mg of nitrates left.

One week later the total nitrate will be 18mg, a 20% water change results in 14.4mg left.

Another week later the total nitrate will be 24.4mg, a 20% water change results in 19.5mg in the system.

So another week later the total nitrate will be 29.5mg, a 20% water change results in 23.6mg in the system.

I think I'll stop here. You get the point.

Water change alone without a form of nitrate export cannot be the best way to control nitrate, unless you do 100% water change.

Since you have a denitrator and enjoy using one, then by all means go ahead. I was working along the assumption that you want to start a new tank without carrying over previous equipment.

In the ideal situation, no equipment should be used, but that will mean leaving the corals in the sea. Alternatively, it is to reduce the amount of equipment and human intervention to the minimum and let nature do what it does best (i.e. sand bed denitrification).

Taking it easy is what I'm trying to acheive by having less worries.

[nannochloropsis]

Point noted on water change. I thought it is, given that this is the aged old practice of many old-timer experienced reefers.

Thanks.

[Tanzy]

Experience counts and is good, but some experiences are wrong or untrue. Reefkeeping is highly scientific and we must keep up with the latest advancement and be ready to discard old practices that hold no water.

[boxfish]

Hi,

Read alot about DSB, can I know is thee a thread that can teach me how to set up?

1. Is it by simply using #1 sand in a sump?

2. Normally what kind of changes will I expect over time? i.e. Will there be anything starting to grow/appear over time?

3. Any maintenance required? e.g cleaning or replacing the sand?

Thank you.