refugium/sump tank

[hydra]

I found the Americans like to use refugium with macro-algae

in their sump area. Is it more efficient ? I did not see any set-up like

this in our LFS. Other than the need to have reverse lighting in the sump,

it's sure a more natural method of nitrate removal.

I am planning for a 4ft setup. Will a sump like this be effective ? Thanks.

[Achilles Tang]

Yes, it is more efficient in the sense that the macro-algae there acts like a natural filter, extracting nitrate, DOM or DOC as well as phosphate from the water to grow. You then completely remove all these by harvesting the algae, or recycle them by feeding it to herbivourous fish.

I believe many aquarist are unable to keep sufficient amount of macroalgae in their main tank because of excessive predation by fish and hermit crabs & snails.

A refugium (which can be incorporated into a sump or be seperated from the sump) is a 'refuge' for algae to grow. It also has the additional benefits of allowing 'pod' populations to grow... and these help in detritus removal as well as become food for corals/fish.

You will need lighting over the refugium for the macros to grow.... some prefer 24/7 lighting, some reverse lighting period (night time) where the respiration of the algae helps in preventing a drop in the PH level.

What goes into the refugium is also another area of study... some use MM (miracle mud), some use fine sand... both works well.

The macroalgae you choose is also important as some are very sensitive and well go asexual, and turn white and melt in your tank, possibly causing a crash if your filtration system is unable to cope.

[Phang]

Hi Hydra,

My sump looks like the picture you posted... with some modification.. water will enter the sump ###### refugium from 2 locations... in one location a lower flow that leads to my refugium...

To find out whether it works....

I can be the guinea pig.....

Wonder if there is anyone else out there with this setup or planning for this setup...

Achilles,

your sump and refugium would be separated or together just like the above????

Just saw my sump... still in glass makers place... GREAT!!!

[hydra]

Right. Choosing the right macroalgae is important. Any suggestion

of macroalgae to use, those that grow very fast, and have least problem ?

I am thinking of not using protein skimmer. Will it

lead to uncontrollable algae outbreak, I mean like those red-slime algae,

etc.....?

[hydra]

Hi Phang,

What do you keep in your refugium ?

rgds,

hydra

[Phang]

Well,

Dunno yet... haven't start my tank cycling yet...

But I'm thinking of a DSB... lots of macroalgae (the kind that won't go asexual) and soft corals... mainly mushroom...

or just a display tank but with DSB... so could be a development ground for coral frags to establish themselves before placing them in main tank.

My main priority is actually to increase the area of DSB.. so as to manage my nitrate levels.... so my refugium surface area of 2 by 2.5 ft 4-5 inches sand should be a major contributor to that....

[hydra]

Hi Phang,

Are you planning to have DSB in your main tank too ?

I am just wondering, if the DSB and protein skimmer works too good,

wouldn't it deprive the macroalgae of it's nutrient. Growing

algae wouldn't be necessary then ?

[Phang]

That's right...

That is if... the DSB of both main and refugium works and with proper skimming....

But I think the Macroalgae is also useful in removing other unwanted elements...

or else... have another display.....

I prefer that ....

Then can have place to pull new coral frags....

[spiff]

ed,

too much DSB is not a gd thing....ur tank might not be able to maintain the large surface area. causing the DSB to crash

[Phang]

You are referring to the bioload not able to supplement the bacteria with food???

[spiff]

i mean if ur tank does not have alot of critters to stir the middle layers of sand, ur DSB might stop functioning altogether. n if not enuff critters the DSB will start to clump up.

[Phang]

Alrite...

Guess I have to look for these so called critters...

You got a list of the more effective ones....

But I though that we are not suppuse to disturb the DSB too much... will create problems right???

[spiff]

okie heres wat i got from dc. ron

Rapid bacterial growth rates only occur without competition for space or nutrients. As the bacterial populations fill in all the open spaces growth slows and may stop altogether. Some bacteria also secrete a exterior covering called a glycocalyx. These are made of a hard sugar-like material similar in consistency to rock candy. Rapid bacterial growth may produce so enough of this material to glue sediments together. These sediment lumps may be glued so tightly together that hammering is needed to break them apart. In much reef literature, these lumps are said to be caused by calcium carbonate or calcium phosphate precipitation. Such mineral precipitation is rare; if a small sediment lump is placed in a weak solution of household chlorine bleach, it breaks down to the component sediment grains in a short time. If the lumps were formed from the calcium salts, they would not dissociate in the bleach.

Lump formation is a disaster for the biological filter. The lumps restrict water flow and trap organic material where it can rot. Additionally, lump formation shuts down the biological filter by covering the bacteria and preventing them from metabolizing nutrients. This, in turn, causes the tank nutrient levels to skyrocket.

Fortunately, prevention of sediment clumping and the simultaneous maintenance of optimal biological filter operation is easily done by the establishment of a healthy and diverse sediment dwelling fauna, or "infauna." The infauna, so-called as the FAUNA lives IN the sediments, is a very diverse array group of wonder-working organisms. Unfortunately, they are small, and are not particularly attractive. Like Rodney Dangerfield, "They don't get no respect." That is a pity, as they do most of the work in keeping any reef tank functional.

The infauna are "the clean-up crew" and the "reef-janitorial" staff, and the array found in a successful tank may be DIVERSE! More than 200 different species commonly are found living in a mature sand bed. These include many types of flatworms, round worms, dozens of species of bristle worms, small snails, brittle stars, small sea cucumbers, protozoans, and many types of small crustaceans. The total populations may be immense. I have done sampling to measure the abundances found in the 45 gallon tank I mentioned earlier, and the number of animals larger than half a mm, or about one fiftieth of inch, in that tank ranges from 90,000 to 150,000 depending on what part of their population cycle the various species are in.

By moving through sediments, the animals jostle and move the particles. Not much, just a little tiny bit. It has been estimated that each day each small organism moves about 10 to 100 cubic millimeter of sediment. Multiplying this tiny average amount of jostling by the number of animals in the tank gives the total amount of disturbance. In my 45 gallon tank, with an average population of about 100,000 small animals, from one to ten million cubic millimeters of sediment is moved each day. Or phrased another way, the entire tank's sediment volume could be completely turned over at least once every three to thirty days. With this amount of jostling and sediment eating, sediment clumping the sediments will simply not occur.

hope this helps

[Phang]

ed,

too much DSB is not a gd thing....ur tank might not be able to maintain the large surface area. causing the DSB to crash

Hi Spiff,

In that case the success of a tank with DSB is to get as much of these critters in....

Some are available from LFS... I think the others from LR????

[spiff]

ya....

i dun think they r available at lfs. some will come from lr....looking at the quality of lr these days i guess only abit will is present.

as wat ron said. the population will drop n increase. dunno y mine dosent seem to be growing liao. i guess its old liao being 1.5yrs old.

[hongqixian]

The display tank at Hong Leong uses this method...but Patrick is using bryopsis instead of caulerpa. It is very similar to caulerpa though. It can be a tough pest to eradicate if it really gets going.

actually, 24/7 lighting is to prevent the macroalgae for 'going sexual'. They also do this when there is an abrupt change in salinity....

[Phang]

24/7 ????

Anyone kind enough to elaborate on this....

[Achilles Tang]

24 hours a day/7 days a week.

[Phang]

Gee... Thanks..

neccessary for strong lighting???

[Achilles Tang]

Cheap lights for refugium is enough...macroalgae are not fussy about it! LOL!

[spiff]

my refu on 24/7.......using 1 36w pl. cheap cheap wan. i think the brand is AEC got for $9

[Phang]

Ah ha...

You have a refugium now...???

must see and learn....

[hydra]

Besides the lighting, there are other conditions that prevent caulerpa from getting sexual. They go sexual because of stress, like overcrowding, lack of nutrients...etc... and they will release their spores into the water, thus becoming 'white'.

Some of the suggestions are :

- constant pruning, to prevent them from maturing, and overcrowding.

- 24/7 lighting

- iron dosage, some says this is the main reason why caulerpa in MM does not go sexual. MM releases iron....

[Phang]

Hi All,

I have heard a lot about this MM (Miracle Mud) thing...

Anyone tried or is keen in using????

Since we are in this refugium issue... is MM good for refugiums...

I understand That skimming is not good if MM is used ...Rite????

[hydra]

Hi Phang,

If you read the testimonial in ecosystem website, they claimed that MM/caulerpa combination, works better than an equivalent Berlin setup. Their corals/fish are much healtier. And does not require protein skimmer, activated carbon to purify water. The nutrient waste are all taken care by the caulerpa.

Think it cost $175 for a 10 lb bag. Pretty expensive.

If you can emulate the ecosystem setup, but without using MM, that will be an achievement. Ecosystem articles says that without MM, your caulerpa will crashed or there will be uncotrollable algae bloom.