marcvelous

It won't hunt until it becomes: The Great Worm Incident *Reproduced as originally posted by lightningstrike.

Yes, they rarely release their much touted toxins unless they are attacked or under TREMENDOUS stress. You should know since you have two boxfishes that died but your tank is still ok

If they move like a bunch of ants, they are beneficial pods. Good to have these. You can keep mandarins if you have enough of these to sustain their diet. If they are stationary and if you have snails, they are possibly snails' eggs. If they move real quick and literally zip across the tank, you may have isopods which are bad news.

The trick is NOT to get any waste or detritus trapped in any filter media that is submerged or in contact with water for prolonged periods. Even the filter wool will become the overly touted "nitrate factory" if not removed and changed on regular basis. In fact, your tank can be the nitrate factory if waste or detritus is not removed by mechnical filtration with good water circulation. If you have an overflow, you can add pre-filter media to trap the waste/detritus before allowing the media in your canister to handle the biological filtration. You can read this thread for a little more insight To answer your question directly, bio-balls are not really effective (comparatively) if placed in a canister due to their large volume but comparatively lesser surface area. What you want to do is to increase the surface area for denitrifying bacteria's colonisation within the limited confines of your canister. In this aspect, BioHome is a good product to consider but beware as it is very expensive. YOu can start with small quantity and change gradually. Again, the discussion in the thread recommended above may help. You should read it. One question for you. How big is your tank? If you have a 2ft, it is impractical to have a DSB (usually 4~6 inches and half of your tank would be covered by sand) or alot of LR due to space constraint in your tank. Thus you'd have to concentrate your bacteria/biological filtration within the media in your canister. You have to maximise the surface area available. Bio-balls are good for trickle-filtration if you have the space for a good-sized sump and pre-filters are in place. They are NOT so called nitrate factories as often misunderstood by "echo-valleys" else LFS would not use them for their own filtration! Hope this helps

Mine eats frozen brine shrimp and finely chopped nori but I want to try to get it to eat pellets and cyclop-eeze!

I tend to bring my other half go cheong LFS as we get to share in the joy of the hobby together in procurement and appreciation (although I do most of the manual work like maintenance ) Other than layout and presentation (most LFS very sloppy looking due to corrosion effect of NSW), I was surprised that she dreaded going to Sealife. No doubt their LS are generally healthier but the young kid (tall with specs, is he Sam's son?) has this bad habit of asking "Can I help you?" and following you around with a signboard-smile on his face. Like scared people steal his LS. Makes us feel very uncomfortable. Also the fact that, as someone mentioned, everything they sell is good and if it is not in their shop, then it's no good.

Super agree. Not reliable recommendations and super parang prices. They paste a sticker say clown sweetlips half price @ $9, usual price $18. Outside selling only $6! I think their marine fish section not doing so well... last time I went there like closed down marine liao

I cannot agree with you more but like I said, so much has been said about DSB and loads of LR that people do not understand or tend to forget their initial aims and needs AND think that DSB should go hand in hand with alot of LR. In fact, the "expert" advice that I received when I started my first tank (and nightmare) was to have DSB and "A lot, must have lot of LR" Sadly, combination of DSB and Berlin (LR method) method doesn't work quite so well and yes, my main tank was a nitrate factory from all the detritus within the rock structure. I did manage to remedy my problem and have almost zero NO3 after reducing my LR and improving circulation (which explains the AZ-NO3 that you bought from me). It does appear that most local reefers prefer DSB, in which case, the LR would have to be correspondingly decreased, as opposed to "more than recommended amount" Hah hah... My bad. Intended it as a satire. If there are products advocating no need for water change for 3~5 years, then certainly there will be LFS who'd proclaim once yearly maintenance for canisters. Sometimes, it's not that they are intentionally misleading customers. It may be that they don't know themselves. For example, I've ever heard the boss of a particular newly opened LFS proclaiming that the NSW in Singapore cannot and should not be used becaused all the waters around Singapore are polluted . Then I asked him what he use in his shop and he said he use salt mix!!! All S$800+ of salt for one replendishment cycle! Normal LFS average one trip to the seaside every other week, that would mean he spends thousands of dollars on salt mix every month! Last I heard, he quietly switch to using NSW. P/S: Lightning, you in Japan right? Wah... then your Westie how? Me thinking of getting JRT end of the year, you got time to share your experience?

Don't mean to start an arguement but was hoping that the little discussion that we have would help other reefers as well as ourselves by sharing our experiences. A lot of beginners do not realise the importance of water circulation and hearing what is being echoed about LR, often without much thought, they go out and buy tonnes of LR which eventually gave them problems. Still, most do not realise the crux of their problem and many others, especially LFS, will conveniently recommend more expensive skimmers, pumps, additives, etc to try and rectify the problem when it could all have been prevented (or even remedied) with a little understanding of the initial setup that would have saved time, effort and money. I am not saying that Terrysimon is wrong (look at my join date and number of posts, hey, I'm inferior) but without proper explanation, a simple statement could very well be mis-interpreted by someone very new to the hobby. Sounds like typical advice from irresponsible LFS eager to bump up sales. Fortunately, we have all advised otherwise and advocated regular maintenance. Hope all beginners planning on using canisters heed this. I concede that it's more troublesome to change the wool in the canister than the sump (I had a sump setup before). Fortunately, there are valves you can buy to make the process slightly less painful. Also, the new generation Eheim Pro II series is much more convenient with different trays for filtration media than the designs of old. I can only sympathise with reefers who bought the canister without spending a little extra for double-tap connectors. Main reason people opt for canisters instead of sumps is primarily due to lack of space. Thus, even though it is also better to have a bungalow, many of us still live in HDB flats. If there's a power outage, how can you use an electric air pump when there's no electricity? If you are talking about battery operated air pump, it should be possible to keep the bacteria in the canister alive with the air pump too. Unless someone can secure for themselves a cheap or 2nd hand UPS. Based on the power requirement for a canister, it should be able to last hours in the event of an outage. It is again, more troublesome but "No space, no sump; no money, no honey". Certainly, there are many means to achieve the same aim. There can be no absolute rights or wrongs, perhaps other than wanton buying without consideration and then throwing away livestock that you discovered you do not need or fancy anymore.

And just FYI, brown scopas tang will turn pure white/silver at night!

One normal rock or LR weighs much more but has less surface area by mass and/or volume. If the idea is to cultivate bacteria growth, I think ceramic rings or sinthered glass chips provide more surface area. Besides, due to the structure of the chips/rings and the fact hat most canisters are shaded from light, it is more readily anerbolic (wrong spelling but am referring to the bacteria that actively removes NO3) . Just a quick pre-script. I used dead rocks, dead sand and a mixture of premix and NSW. Most people refer to filtration medium, especially bio-balls and filter wool, as nitrate factory because they did what they were designed to do, i.e. trap waste and detritus. If the waste/detritus is not removed from the path of the water, it will eventually break down (think: ANN cycle) and get you NO3. This applies not only to canisters. If you have a sump and do not change the filter wool (often first layer of filtration) you also have the same problem. Given, it is more troublesome to change the wool in a canister than a sump. In fact, if your tank has poor circulation, low water turnover rates, loads of water impediment objects (rocks, etc), the waste produced by your LS and leftover from feeding will more likely remain in your tank and become detritus that decompse/break down right there -- in your main tank. Detritus/Waste in main tank will decompose and break-down just like they would have in the canister. The parallels are strikingly familiar but we do not hear people conveniently calling their main tanks nitrate factories. Hope this helps. abit, if bio-balls are really as bad as they are made out to be, why are they still in production? In fact, most LFS use bio-balls (tonnes of them) in their trickle-filtration systems. IMHO, the product is not faulty, it's the user who doesn't know how to use them correctly.

If the main tank is overloaded with LR, it will hamper the water circulation. lightningstrike has a sump and is only using the canister to supplement as chemical filtration (no offense bro lightning so dun strike me with your thunderbolts ) whereas bro borinz will need to use the canister for both mechical and chemical/biological filtration. He will definitely need wool and is not feasible to just have polyfilter as the running costs will only make LFS happy. I am running my tank solely on canister. Share my setup/experience. General advice for filtration media as follows (from bottom up or top down depending on the direction of water flow; first media is for the layer that comes into contact with water first and last layer is for before water re-enters tank) 1. Coarse wool (trap debris) 2. Coral chips or anything else to promote bacteria growth (try BioHome*) 3. polyfilter or activated carbon wool or any other chemical filtration media or/with BioHome 4. Biohome* 5. Biohome* with fine wool (note fine wool the last layer before water re-enters tank) In addition, I recommend that you set up a by-pass with a surface skimmer since you are not using sump or overflow system. The by-pass with surface skimmer will help ensure that your water surface is clean. The bypass will help introduce one more water in-take channel to suck water from more than one side of the tank for filtration. *You can replace BioHome with ceramic rings or coral chips or the likes. Reason I mention BioHome is the increased surface area (means more bacteria and more efficient) and long life of use. Most (cheap) ceramic rings are bulky, less surface area for bacteria growth by volume and have to be replaced average every 2 months (coral chips about 6 months). BioHome can last the better part of 2~3 years. Just rinse with tank water during maintenance to rinse off dead bacteria/debris and use them again! Have to warn you is expensive though so maybe you can start off with only one or half layer of BioHome and the rest use cheap stuff and replace the cheap stuff slowly. Works just as well since you can only introduce LS slowly anyway. Hope this helps

Mmmm.... I cannot agree with you. Can you name a fish listed on LiveAquaria that doesn't need a minimum 30 gallon tank? Even feather dusters or tubeworms and turbo snails are listed as needing a temperature of 72-78°F which translates into 25.56°C! By that account, and using the converter available in SRC, a 2 x 1 x 1ft tank is only 14.96US gallons or 12.46UK gallons. Does it mean then that no one should own anything less than a 3ft tank with a chiller, monster skimmer, Ca Reactor, Ioniser and MH to boot? This very thread is started for mandarin lovers to share experiences and methods to ween mandarins (and I'm sure other fishes) to eat prepared foods to ensure their survival despite the absence or depletion of copepods or other natural foods. Expensive equipment, big tanks or what nots does not equate to a responsible or experienced reefer. If it boils down to being right, we should just all leave everything where they belong in the Big o'Blue. No offense!

May I know why would you say that? Did your mandarins respond better to frozen mysis than brine shrimp? Thought that mysis is larger in size? That was why I bought brine shrimp so that smaller fishes can eat. Is there anything to substantiate that fishes prefer mysis to brine shrimp? Very curious and very thankful for your sharing!

Yes, also noticed that you did not mention the size of your fishes. Some fishes change colours with maturity. Others, after keeping for a long time in high temperatures, will experience fading. Seeing that you have a FOWLR 4ft tank, presumably without chiller, it could be possible too that temperature may be the reason. As for marine trace, I think more for corals, right?

Would like to share my experience/experiment as well. I have a small tank and no copepods (as I started with dead rocks and dead sand). I applied the same criteria on size when choosing my mandarin. My mandarin is currently staying in a beta box inside my main tank. From the very first day, I have tried to ween it to eat prepared foods. It has been 3 weeks since introduction to my tank and surprisingly, it is neither thinner nor less healthy. Knowing their nature to just chomp chomp as they swim along, I tried to flood the small beta box with pellets, nori, frozen brine shrimp and cyclopfreeze in order to get them to recognise food. My twice daily feeding regime as follows: Day1: Pellets (approx 8, equal to what my tang eat) Day2: Pellets with cyclopfreeze Day3: Pellets Day4: Pellets with cyclopfreeze Day5: Pellets with nori (nori only evening feeding) Day6: Pellets with cyclopfreeze Day7: Pellets with frozen brine shrimp (bs only evening feeding) My observation so far is that my mandarin will recognise nori and frozen brine shrimp and will eat it almost immediately upon feeding but it doesn't literally attack the food and because of this, I worry for its health if I were to introduce it formally into my main tank. Also, my mandarin doesn't seem interested in pellets or cyclopfreeze. However, whatever I introduced will definitely and totally disappear after one or two days. I have noticed my shrimps attaching themselves to the sides of the beta box supposedly to feed on the food inside but I doubt they'd be able to reach all the way in and finish all the pellets and cyclopfreeze. I remain hopeful that my mandarin chomped on these. Getting the mandarin to feed on cyclopfreeze and pellets is especially important as these foods disperse thoroughly or sink almost immediately upon introduction to the tank with good water circulation and even smaller and more timid fishes are able to get their share without trouble. It wll be almost hopeless to expect it to fight for brine shrimp with the tangs. That's all for now. WIll continue to observe and hopefully report good news in the coming weeks!

Agree that there is no right or wrong where equipment choice is concerned... My experience (amongst others): 1. A former reefer who boasted of his 5ft setup with supposedly some of the best equipment available in the market. Seemed to have great plans and all. After ANN cycle, bought 20 fishes and dumped them ALL in at the same time. All 20 up the lorry. Sold his entire setup less than 2 months after setup now like disappeared, never to be heard from again. 2. People who are firm believers in "Nothing but the best" and just keeps buying and buying and upgrading and upgrading, even with some of whom are dirt poor. I think a better rule would be to start small and start simple. Take the time to decide for yourself if you like it and verify if it's a real hobby or puppy love/infatuation caused by media (eg Finding Nemo). Then slowly upgrade be it a bigger tank or better and more costly equipment. This is not only more sensible for yourself (finances, space, family for those not living alone, etc) but also more responsible to the creatures in your tank, some although cheap are no less alive than you or me. A small tank can be converted into a quarantine or hospital tank. Worse comes to worst, you can easily give away or donated to cousins or nearby schools/childcare for freshwater aquariums. There are also lot of people around, trumpet-blowers, unscrupulous dealers, etc who will lead you the wrong way be it cheap or expensive equipment. PURELY just sharing my experience and no offense to anyone, I started out with a 3ft and listened extensively to one particular reefer who seemed to be an expert to me (he had like a few thousand posts even though he joined for only a few months!!! Later then I know most of them emoticons or irrelevant one-liners). End up most of the "advice" he gave were nonsense and I spent and spent to remedy the errors. I have since downgraded my setup to a 2ft and is finally loving this hobby like I never have before. Just my two cents...

Erm.... I think the designer already catered to this problem. He's got one way valves, as well as ball valves installed to prevent back-flow and facilitate maintenance. Don't think it'll really eliminate all dead spots as the placement of the water outlets are on the stop of the tank. You have to factor in rock placement. If have a mountain of rocks below, there's no way water flow will be efficient.

Which is why I buy dead rocks. All this talk of LIVE rocks as if they are some miracle product. Dead rocks can be colonised by bacteria to be LR also but alot of beginners don't understand and think maybe rocks can give birth. When they start to see the stuff crawling out of their LR, then.... Ammonia spike will not kill bristle worms or crabs. They are super hardy. Only way is to remove them. If you know the rock that the worm is hiding in, bring it out and air it for few hours. The worm will crawl out from its hiding place then remove it but have to be fast. There is no way to ensure your rocks 100% worm or crab free short of Clorex-ing them or starting with dead rocks. Since you are just started cycling, you still have options. Better now than to discover later that you have crabs or worms after you introduce LS!

When your NH4 level down around 4th week, put in snails to get rid of the algae