Milch_Tan

here are some useful questions and postings that were posted by helpful reefers in my tank thread and I am privileged to be able to share them with other who are or were in the same plight as I was (with the poster's consent) Q: Will bacteria starve to death when cycled for too long? Lemonlemon: bacteria population won't crash after weeks of cycling. you don't have to worry about that. bacterial growth goes through a few phases. if you study microbiology you will know. the lag phase, the log phase, stationary phase and the death phase. when you first start your tank, introduce liverock etc, the bacteria is at lag phase. this means they don't do anything as they get used to the tank. once gotten used to your tank, they being the log phase. where (by now your ammonia would have accumulated,), they drastically feed on your ammonia and population explodes exponentially or logarithmically. thus, log phase. after log phase, bacteria growth will be same to nutrient export. thus a balance will be created. this is called stationary phase. where the number of death = number of growth. death phase will only occur when the system is devoid of nutrients and the bacteria will start dying out 1 by 1. in our taanks, a stable eco-system is established, there fore majority of the bacteria after cycling are at stationary phase. when you add fish again and there's bioload produced, the bacteria momentarily enter log phase and then to stationary phase again. you don't have to worry about food for the bacteria. there will always be living things in your liverocks and so long as there are living things, metabolic waste will be produced and your bacteria will feed on it.the amount however, will control which phase the bacteria is at, but never at death phase. cycling for long time also increase pod count which is good. Q: What means of survival and stages does bacteria goes through? the phases of bacterial growth are not constant like as in the growth of a human. hmm... we cannot say at month 3, the bacteria is in stationary phase, at month 1 the bacteria is in lag phase. doesn't work like this. there can be many cycles going on at any period of time. at month 3 there could be new lag phase starting as new bacteria are being introduced, could be from air could be from dust (oh yes, nitrosoma sp. can be found in air too). but at month 3 there could also be stationary phase existing from the previous bacterial batch. this phases are also directly related to the growth of microfauna around the bacteria. i.e, whatever grows on your rocks is related to what the bacteria goes through. there are much more living things in a liverock than you can see. and it doesn't take much for a bacteria cell to survive. in reality, bacterial cells require very little sustenance to be kept alive. it is only when we culture them on nutrient rich media that they proliferate like crazy. death phase rarely occurs in nature or in our tanks, because there is always a continuous supply of food from the surrounding ecosystem. it's a matter of enough to grow or not. death phase is a term very commonly used in industrial bacterial growth. where you give them a fixed amount of nutrient you control and they just eat and grow until they expire all, and die. this is very unlikely to happen in our tanks but in actual fact, they can stay alive with minimal nutrients. this is when they are in stationary phase. meaning their uptake of nutrients is just enough to keep them alive and they can go on like this, so long as the minimal nutrient requirement is met for every bacteria. of course, many will die, but a large population will remain alive. a few weeks over the normal cycling isn't enough to completely decimate bacteria colony till death phase. that's why 8 week cycling (only 4 weeks above the normal cycling time), is still very young and will not harm bacterial colonies at all. but if we talk about 1 year, or more, than yes, probably. i don't know too. in a rock only tank, bacteria are just surviving on minimal fuel, thhus at stationary phase, when you add in livestock, ammonia build up, and the bacteria temporarily goes into log phase again. this is what i said in my previous post. yes you are right. everytime you add in a livestock, it goes into a mini-cycle. but the reasoning behind it is wrong. no matter how long you cycle, be it 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 4 years, 10 years, you still have to slowly add in livestock, to slowly let the bacteria colonies handle your bioload wether they are established or not. so then, it doesn't really matter if u cycle for 4 weeks or 8 weeks. at the end of the day, you still have to add in livestock slowly. but you have an added advantage at week 8 of cycling because you have pods there, and you have a good continuous supply of bacteria in the different phases Q: Any difference for tank in respect of the length of time cycled? got there's a difference of 2-4 months LOL! ok jokes aside. i think it's personal preference how long you want to cycle. as long as you hit the minimum 4 week criteria you should be fine. however long you want to cycle after that, up to you. i like to cycle more because it gives chance for little things to grow on my rocks. like pods, algae, sponge, fanworms, tunicates, etc etc. the extra weeks will let the liverock recover from it's massive die off before cycling, and re-grow into good liverock with algae, etc. this might seem rubbish to others but it's precious to me. why? simply coz the livestock i want to keep, love eating this. cycling extra time also give better water quality. in this few weeks you can tune your CR if you have not, etc, and let the equipment and water parameters stabalise abit first. then slowly add livestock 1 by 1. as for wether or not there will be more bacteria after cycling longer, who knows? but the benefits are definitely there if you cycle longer. pod growth, liverock fauna growth, stable parameters etc. patience is the key.

Thanks akinass! waiting for your tank thread! hmm interesting observation, put in 8 med sized de-shelled market prawn on 29/06/10 @ bout 0630hrs and on 30/06/10 @ 2140hrs all disintegrated! just 1 amp of Bio Digest (on 29/06/10 @ 0645hrs) and weekly Bacterlife (Since 10/05/10), seems like they really work! thanks for the suggestions and stuffs bro LaW! haha

oops, sorry bro, yeah but seriously the scape is very nicely "opened-up"

WOOOHOOOO the Dragon come out liaoz .. the start of the "Crouching Tiger hidden Dragon" Nice scaping bro! did you use any epoxy? keep us posted! ps: your Discuses are sweeee!

just to add on, all 5 panels are full crystal glass, (yes 5!!! the btm panel too) so bros who wannna attempt a 4 side view with center o/f & return, (with some mod) this is the tank to get man!

MAI TUUUU LAIOZ!!!! super good buy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! saw this b4 nice tank!

heya bro!, nice meeting you @ bro Cedric's house for e worldcup game, sorry didn't able to chat much with you guys as i was late. though I don't normally watch soccer, but could tell it was a beautiful game by German, until their 4th goal, lol. Like your tower for ya corals! looks somewhat like LOTR (eye of Sauron!) cool stuff!

PM replied, UPz~

wow, bro, now i understand your concerns on the nutrient levels, cos your GT looks like good serving size for BBQ/ goreng ikan :X jus kidding, hmm hope they'll find good home soon, sorry didn't manage to chat up with you guys b4 the start of the match @ bro Cedric's house. anyhow your tank is sweee~ looking 4ward to your rescape!

heya bro Bino!, upz for this strawberry crab! it's size is about 1 pinky finger, and you can feed it with algae on tweezers:groupwavereversed:. very stable invert~, great for pure invert tank or pico

it's indeed a good skimmer! upz for ya sale!

upz

upz

hi bro, u may like to visit this link for the bulk order of the said gel. http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88943

hi bro digibee & bino! hmm G11 read conflicting views @ dpreview.. anyhow, the applications of swivel arm is def. more creative angles i think. haha. hmm think GO uses G10, now on that leica!!! X1 ? but macro only up to 30cm...read that M9 can't do macro..pity.. haha. anyway lilo, any tots of getting a new camera? how bout the sony NEX5?

woooooo, guess we can't blame them for doing wht they are programmed to do by mother nature lol. did you aunt scream?

upz

upz

woah, seriously never knew Canon IXUS 95 IS is such a solid camera, was still considering Canon powershot G11, nice closeups, think my samsung is really zzz

KAWAIIII, hmm i once gave my dog a soft toy of its size too, and not long b4 i knew it.. my dog was humping that soft toy in front of my relative gathering..

wow, many thanks to bro Jacky, Terryz & Lemon2 All these comments had indeed aided me plenty with sound logic backed by scientific understanding of the different bacteria phases. Definitely learnt a great deal! thanks, if permissible i'll copy & paste some of the posting in the "Proper Cycling" Section, think it really contains a lot of useful information about bacteria behaviors etc. Reefing would have been more hostile without such willing individuals like you guys to share knowledge, and knowledge is always good to pass around, makes every 1's life a little easier and better

sure, if i can program tt hot chick i mean fish not to nip on corals! haha, seen the way they behave in mix-reef tank! it's like vacuum-cleaner + grass cutter! else each nip she get, my heart will sink 1 time. hehe. how bout naming her? Victoria Holacanthus ciliaris Beckhem ?

Hey there Jem, thanks! yeah realize after installing the CR (Thanks to bro Thomas_Lim for teaching)! coralline seems to be growing faster! hmm surprisingly, there's not as much gunk as I expected. I'm sure there are many more situations that demands more patience from us, ie . our other-half's bombarding of our hobby, or unjust bosses/lecturers etc. haha.

ic, thanks for the expert pointers jacky, maybe my weekly dosing of bacteria and some dosing of phytoplankton/zooplankton ain't enough then, either way, thanks for your pin point comments, keep it coming. will be sure to read up on your tank thread to replicate your beautiful tank.

Thanks again lemon2 hmm found this picture though "What is a Zoanthid Irritaters? Last updated 2006.02.12 A Zoanthid Irritater is something that can irritate a Zoanthid for long periods of time, causing it to close, and eventually kill the Zoanthid. I'm not talking about a Hermit crab that crawls across a Zoanthid colony. No worries, he's in and out in a minute. Or a fish that swims by - again, they'll open and close fairly quickly. An example is something with sweeping tentacles that don't eat Zoanthids, but will rest their tentacles o­n a Zoanthid for long periods of time causing it to remain closed and eventually kill it. Some of these critters have stinging tentacles as well which compound to the problem. It should be noted that not all Irritaters effect all Zoanthids! Some seem immune while others fall victim... " will try to remove it tomorrow