SantaMonica

. Text Version: Nutrients, part 4 Our Tanks: High Inorganic Nutrients, Low Organic Nutrients. The Ocean: Low Inorganic Nutrients, High Organic Nutrients. Previous Versions: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients1.jpg http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients2.jpg http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Nutrients3.jpg . . .

Post the specs of your tank/setup/livestock, and I'll see what scrubber config/process I can recommend to start with.

. Results Of The Day: Corinna on the AC site: "Think we should just call you Santa!! After 3 weeks my screen is forming wine red spots, the pods are having pod parties and making babies, the seahorses are noticeably gaining weight and the water is decidedly 'sparklier'.Thanks." jfdelacruz on the RP site: "Overfeeding does wonders! i dont know how and why but, the ATS seems to be an extra 20 gallons for my tank because even if I overfeed, nothing in my tank seems to be going bad! water is always crystal clear too! (I do have seagel in there running for about 2 months already) this ATS is a blessing." . .

Yes, it raises it. You think a skimmer doesn't remove trace elements? Those opinions were stated by folks who either work for a skimmer manuacturer/LFS, or, still think scrubbers work they way they did 5 or 10 years ago.

. Text Version: There should not be any bubbles if a scrubber is set up correctly with smooth flow into the water below. But if you have too many bubbles, make sure the bottom of the screen goes all the way down below the waterline, so there is no waterfall off the bottom, and design the scrubber with an "under over under" divider section like some people use in sumps. . .

Update Of The Day: Growth Progression Blank screens usually start off with a light brown slime of diatoms, unless the water is really high in nitrate and phosphate, in which it might start with dark spots. After a few weeks, green slime or green hair will usually grow. And from that point on, it will be a mix of brown and green, all of which is easily cleaned off. After a few months, however, and if you have enough light (and maybe pulsed flow), you may start seeing real red/brown turf, or possibly bright green turf. You'll know that they are turf because they won't come off no matter what you do, except with a razor blade.

. Many folks have been asking about the solar setup. Well that fellow is the success story of the day. "Bob the (reef)builder" on the MASA site originally set up this screen that I posted a few weeks ago: Here are his updates: 9/21: Thank you for the input Santa monica, I will definately be doing this on an expanded basis. I think I will put a three ft tank in the sun and do what you've got on a slightly larger scale. Great simple fix to an ongoing problem by most aquarists. 9/28: The film is plastic and gets wet totally. Its 1m x 1m in size. The water input is also the stand. The strands run diagnally which makes the water flow very nicely. I'm happy with it and will let it stand in the sun. Hopefully get rid of the hair algae problem I have. You should see my actual tank to know why I jumped at this idea. The construction is so easy though. And if it works a quarter as well as Santa says it does, it will be like Christmas. 10/19: I changed this one as the upright design did not get enought sun. I put it on a 45degree angle and that was better: 10/25: It worked like a bomb. Phosphates down to 0.02 - 0.01 ppm (this is on a hanna meter and is very low). Normal test would just read undetectable. [Previously] the best I ever got it to trying every trick in the book including Zeo and Vodka, Lanthinum and many other phosphate removers was 0.03. .

Reminder of the Day: Less Maintenance If less maintenance is a requirement, then you want an oversize screen; try 2X normal size, with 2X the number of lights. This should be able to go 2X as long before a cleaning is needed. The limiting factor might be the pods; at some point they may make big holes in the algae (or not; you will have to test). This is a great thing for someone to try out. Just remember that the additional screen space will need the same lighting that the current screen has.

Read page 1. You'll need to cut a slot in the pipes. Also, lower the light down between the screens.

Are you using a slot?

Today's success story is from "keifer1122" on the RS site. He got the pre-grown screen from Inland Aquatics, and put a powerful bulb on both sides (even though the screen comes only one-sided, he wanted it to grow on the other side too.) His results took six weeks. Here are his comments, highly edited for readability: 9/23: its a pre grown screen from IA. [...] my nitrates are up, its only been 2 weeks and it looks like there at a stand still, but im feeding heavily, lot of anemones in there. also where the light is the brightest theres a certain type of algae that looks like an oil spill , its got a rainbow of colors yellowish greenish brown. also no yellowing in my water. [...] i run a skimmer just cause my numbers are up there, but when there down to nuthing then ill remove. its a 75g with 29g sump, the lights i use are 40 watt cfls comparable to 150w, but today i picked up the big daddy cfl 65 watt/300 watt comparable 3,900 lumens. so i cleaned yesterday to the point where everything was off except for the red turf that didnt come off, plus i want that to grow i think. but the screen was bare and today the screen is covered. been in for 2 weeks, not much growth the first week. but adjusted to my tank and now my first week cleaning was about the same growth that grew (lol) in one day. [...] right now i have toooo many fish... a buddy i work with was gettin out and i bought his liivestock and equip... yellow tang hippo tang big royal gramma blue green chromis 2 clownfish mandarin coral beauty small bangaii cardinal ...and i only have about 35 lbs of liverock, maybe. thats pushin it. 2" sandbed, run an undersized skimmer, i think euro reef made for 55g. i test with api nitrate test, and i lost the color chart, but yellow good, red bad, im orange. and since ive been testing it looks like its getting a lighter color. [it] was usually just goin up everyday, but with the new light i think that will speed up the growing process. 9/26: i cleaned monday and today is friday, and i have to clean again. [...] the other side is getting there, still needs to catch up tho. [...] no lights on a timer, runnin it for 24/7. [although should be changed to 18 hours ON, and 6 hours OFF]. pump is on a timer, 30 [seconds] on 30 off, its just that the screen from IA was one sided and thats why the other side has to catch up. 10/23: just chimming in to say my n and p are undetectable.(!)

. Update of the Day: It's been recently discovered that the screen-wrapped-around-pipe design will clog up and stop working when the algae gets thick. It grows heavily where the screen is wrapped at the top, and blocks further flow from going down the screen. Instead the flow starts going out the ends, completely missing the entire screen, thus killing what algae was previously growing on screen. It affects different screens in varying amounts; the higher the lights are (thus closer to the wrap), the more it clogs. This is the type I'm referring to: . .

Today's success story comes from "BearUSA" on the TR site. He did what many folks call the "combined" approach... using lots of things in addition to his scrubber to help eliminate his nuisance algae. Wish he had more pics, but here is the before: And after: Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/UserBearUS...kingReef-10.jpg Here is his setup: And here is what he said along the way: 8/21: this guide is awesome, i,m gonna be building me one of these as soon as i get some time to myself, thanks for posting this so everyone can see and share. 9/10: what is the best way to get rid of nuisance algae, despite regular water changes and picking this stuff off the rocks it keeps growing back, my nitrates are 0ppm confirmed with 2 different test kits. my phosphates are also 0ppm with different tests. i have since set up a turf algae screen but that has only been running for a day and a half so its not working yet. 9/10: [waterfall pipe is] just an ordinary gravel vac pipe, fed by my external canister filter, the light is above at the mo i need to go out and buy some brackets and 2 light fixtures so i can have a light either side of screen, the other end of the gravel vac pipe has a water tight access plug, so i can still get in to clean the pipe. this nuisance algae just keeps on growing despite regular water changes picking it off the rocks, this stuff is ugly no matter what i do it just dont wont to disapear, this turf filter is my last resort. 9/13: i am determined to get this right but sometimes its so disheartning to see a tank that you try your very best to get things right to just keep getting covered in crap algae. 9/18: over the last couple of days i have noticed the nuisance algae i've been suffering with is eventually starting to die off. i'm sure the second 60 litre tank that i placed my calurpa green grape and cheato are starting to take up the nutrients before the nuisance stuff, i'm so pleased today that my tank is half way to looking great again. 9/20: i have done 2 small water changes whilst siphoning out as much as possible, i'm quite glad now i,m eventually getting back on track, my water is crystal clear all params are spot on, i had feared of water turning a bit yellowy with the release off the nutrients from the dying algae but i have had none of that. [...] hopefully fingers crossed i,ve got a hold on this now. 9/23: [answering "how did you do it"]: it could be a number of elements, i took on board all the advice which i received which im totally greatful for, i set up a 60 litre tank next to my main dt and filled it with a 4 inch deep sand bed, plus added culurpa green grape and cheato, i set up a temporary turf algae filter as suggested by Santa Monica in his thread under mega powerful nitrate and phosphate remover, i have continuously picked at the stuff and used a toothbrush to gently wipe over the rocks and inside the nooks and crannys, no doubt scaring my fish half to death, the only thing i haven't done yet is to replace the skimmer, i should say upgrade the skimmer, currently running a red sea pro prism, i had advice to get rid of it and get a better one. and also added another koralia 2 to improve water circulation which i placed at the bottom of dt to serge current over sand bed. increased slightly the amount of water i take out for water change, from about 90litres to about 125litres every 2 to 3 weeks. on the whole it could be any number of things i have done if not all, and once again i would like to thank all of you for your advice and recommendations. 10/6: this thread is really getting interesting now with all the different people posting and for santa monica posting pics of the scrubbers, etc. GOOD WORK SANTA MONICA KEEP IT UP 10/9: i,ve nearly cracked it, this nuisance algae have a look at these pics to see, i'm over the moon its nearly all gone. 10/16: i've been running my scrubber for about a month and a half now, n and p are zero, i have always had a zero n and p reading using the salifert test kits, but when i had that nuisance algae problem i was told the kits were registering zero because it was quite possible that the algae were taken it all in. if that makes any sense. ps another note i'd like to thank you again for your hard work and commitmant in keeping this thread a live and with the great pics your posting up, keep up the good work, without your posting of this thread i wouldn't have even known about these turf filters, so once again a BIG THANKYOU. . .

. "Sly" on the SWF site, who built a scrubber into a kitchen trash can (including a mechanical surge), gets the award for the biggest scrubber harvest so far on any site:

If set up properly, they are silent. Just make sure the screen touches the water. You can also use a bucket/box like I use in my office.

Reminder of the Day: Proper Flow While not as important as how strong and near the bulb is, proper flow has shown to help a lot. Before Mrobo770131 on the UR site got things tuned properly, his flow looked like this: Zennzzo on the MFK site, however, got it perfect from the start: The trick is to have 35 gph (adjustable) for every inch width of the screen. And this is assuming your waterfall pipe has a slot. If your pipe uses drilled holes (not recommended) then you will use less. . . . .

. . . . . Text Version: Nutrients, part 3 The amount of Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate that a scrubber removes is directly controlled by how much light-power hits the scrubber: 1" - The light-power is full strength. 4" - At 4" distance, the same bulb power has to cover four times the area, so the power per square inch is only 25 percent of what is was (reduced 75%). 6" - At 6" distance, the same bulb power has to cover nine times the area, so the power per square inch is only 11 percent of what is was (reduced 89%). This is why placing the bulb very close to the scrubber is extremely important. . .

Nutrient-wise, it makes no difference... the nutrients are the same throughout the system. Pod-wise, you want the skimmer first, so it does not remove them.

Stages of an aquarist's happiness with a scrubber: 1. The day you see the first very light-brown color on the screen. 2. The day you see the screen covered left to right, top to bottom. 3. The day AFTER you think you saw your N or P test go down. Because that day after, you tested again to be sure. 4. The day you realized, for sure, that the the piece of filtration equipment you removed last week was really and truely not needed. 5. The day you finally realize that the N and P problems you've been fighting for (weeks, months, years) are finally gone. 5. The day another aquarist asks you, "How did you do it?"

Yes he's beautiful, especially when he swims around. Looks like a UFO.

. Here's one reason I really like using scrubber without a skimmer. My purple gorg and red feather star stay open and extended all day and night, even though they naturally do so only during the night. But since there is no skimmer removing organics (food), and since the scrubber adds pods to the water all day, not only do they eat well, but they do so 24/7. Note: You cannot keep filter feeders likes these if you have a skimmer... Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/My90starAndGorg.jpg . .

. Reminder Of The Day: Feeding: Here are the two building block articles by Eric Borneman that cover what happens when you feed your tank. This information is what you need to know to understand what scrubbers do: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/eb/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/eb/index.php Here is an excerpt from the second one: "Detritus [waste] ... is the principal food source for the many bacterial species that work in various nitrification and denitrification activities. Before reaching the microbial community, however, [waste] acts as a food source for the smaller consumers such as amphipods, copepods, errant polychaetes, protozoans, flagellates, ciliates and other animals whose activities contribute to the stability and productivity of a coral reef and a coral reef aquarium." and "Of the many food sources available to corals and already discussed in this series of articles, particulate organic material [waste], dissolved organic material [DOC/DOM], and bacteria are the most universally accepted food sources" and "The use of detrital material, or particulate organic material, as food source is a cornerstone of coral reef ecology and forms what is well accepted to be the base of the entire food chain" . .

Text Version: Food --> fish,corals --> Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate. Organic Nitrate, Organic Phosphate --> Bacteria --> Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate. Inorganic Nitrate, Inorganic Phosphate --> Algae --> Oxygen

Reminder Of The Day: Why Larger Is Not Better: A larger screen, by itself (without larger lights), is not better than a smaller screen. This means that if you want more nitrate and phosphate removal from your water, the best way to do it is by getting stronger lights, or by moving the lights closer to the screen. If all you do is get a larger screen, the new larger edges of the screen will be too far from the light to have any effect. Of course, the most effective way to increase nitrate and phosphate removal is to do all three: Increase screen size; add more lights to cover the new screen parts; and position all the lights closer to the screen.

Well here is my 7-day cleaning from yesterday. First, here's the screen before cleaning, looking at the the edge: Here's the screen after cleaning: And here's what was removed: So it was a half-pound of wet green hair, about the same as last week. Once thing about cleaning green hair compared to real turf (my other screen that's now at the LFS) is that it slides off so easy, it's hard to leave any on the screen. I tried to only clean one side, but some of the other side detached too. You can almost just run tap water over it, and the loose stuff comes off. Maybe a better design is two half-screens, so you can just pull one out and clean it completely, while not touching the other one.