Natural reefing

[desong]

Does any of you guys doing it 'natural' style i.e. using macros + sand/mud bed as part of your biological filtration without skimming?

Des

[surfedelic]

Des,

there were some topic on that regarding skimmerless tank on reefcentral ... but I think it is very very difficult to control the parameter becasue at the end of the day it is a closed loop system ... you can only control the nutrient if your closed loop system mimic the open system in the ocean meaning you have some means to export the nutrient.

If you used Macro algae, you are trying to get rid of the the nutrient by bringing in another parameter..

IMHO, Macro algae is alot of hassle .... becasue you have to trim them and you need to achieve the correct balance for nutrient export .... and problem of going sexual .... provided you have alot of time then

I have no experience with miracle mud ... you can do a search ... it has been discussed before in the past...

I think if you have a SPS tank ... with all the slime ..... I wonder how a skimmerless tank willl be like ... you must have a great amount of macros..

[hmkui]

hi..des... presently i m using a mud system with macro algae growing in it... the result it not as fantastic as it has proclaims.... but i do believe there is a level of nutrients export from the main tank and be consume by the algae... so far no asexual activities is seen probably due to the fact that i have the lights on 24/7.. and beginning i do see a bloom in cynobacteria after i change to the mud system... and i have to add a phosphate reactor to reduce the phosphate due to the fact that the algae is not fully established and till to date... i still have the phosphate reactor in operation as well as the algae in my sump but the mud system has 1 major advantage ... a large amount of copepods and organism was notice in my sump and i believe the copepods have been pump to my main tank which serve my anthias very well....

[desong]

Thanks guys. My experience is that its actually much less work. With less technology, the focus shifts more towards animal & plants and all the biological processes. Here are some recent photos I took of the system under my care.

FAYI, I work for an aquatic distributor in the UK that supply MMud.

Des

[Creetin]

desong! u must be something to be able to maintain such tanks! tell us, are these tanks skimmerless?

if so, many of us will be very interested to know...

[Golden Tooth]

Wats the size n age of that tank?

[vagabond]

amazing... share with us your reefing technics.

[Eric]

Thanks guys. My experience is that its actually much less work. With less technology, the focus shifts more towards animal & plants and all the biological processes. Here are some recent photos I took of the system under my care.

FAYI, I work for an aquatic distributor in the UK that supply MMud.

Des

Beautiful tank............looks like quite deep, what kinda lightings u using? Can share with us the tank specs pls?

Eric

[surfedelic]

Care to share with us your spec... We are keen to know your recipe

[Mellow]

awesome!!!

[typrobin]

wat?? no skimmer and SPS???!!!! OMG!!! a real eye opener!!! with lotsa anthias as well!!!

[Achilles Tang]

I think that tank is on a miracle mud sandbed system.... used with a refugium, its supposed to help reduce nitrates.

[bubble_gum]

OMG that tank is very colourfull and awsome

[blueheaven]

[ryan]

WOW!

[ah^siao]

impressive is the word

[desong]

I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have...

Yes it's skimmerless, nutrient export is via natural processes including macro algae uptake, microbial processes in and on mud etc.

Tank measures 1m x 1.5m long x 1m, and holds about 1600 litres including sump.

Just over 2 years old.

Lighting consists of 5 x 400w HQI & 4 x fluorescents.

About 50 fish with 24 being anthias - P. squamipinis & P. bicolor.

Des

[strat]

I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have...

Yes it's skimmerless, nutrient export is via natural processes including macro algae uptake, microbial processes in and on mud etc.

Tank measures 1m x 1.5m long x 1m, and holds about 1600 litres including sump.

Just over 2 years old.

Lighting consists of 5 x 400w HQI & 4 x fluorescents.

About 50 fish with 24 being anthias - P. squamipinis & P. bicolor.

Des

wow 50 fishes!!!

Your tank is really awesome!!

Any other equipment you using?

[freddychin]

I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have...

Yes it's skimmerless, nutrient export is via natural processes including macro algae uptake, microbial processes in and on mud etc.

Tank measures 1m x 1.5m long x 1m, and holds about 1600 litres including sump.

Just over 2 years old.

Lighting consists of 5 x 400w HQI & 4 x fluorescents.

About 50 fish with 24 being anthias - P. squamipinis & P. bicolor.

Des

This is the first time I hear about a 400w HQI and you have 5 units. That is 2000 w lighting on a 3 feet tank.

At what temperature do you keep your tank ?

What brand chiller and the specification, thanks

I must have lost track as what is are the available lighting and equipment in reef keeping world.

[desong]

The system also has a calcium reactor to help maintain calcium & alkalinity levels.

Freddy, the system is 3ft wide x 3ft deep x 5ft long. I originally started with 1 x 400w (very naive), then onto 3 and finally when the halides failing I decided to upgrade to 5. IMO any less just won't do for the animals I try to keep.

It's summer right now and it's impossible to keep the temp down without employing a chiller (Aqua Medic 1500). It maintains the tank between 23-25.5C.

Des

[Golden Tooth]

I'm more than happy to answer any question you may have...

Yes it's skimmerless, nutrient export is via natural processes including macro algae uptake, microbial processes in and on mud etc.

Tank measures 1m x 1.5m long x 1m, and holds about 1600 litres including sump.

Just over 2 years old.

Lighting consists of 5 x 400w HQI & 4 x fluorescents.

About 50 fish with 24 being anthias - P. squamipinis & P. bicolor.

Des

[freddychin]

The system also has a calcium reactor to help maintain calcium & alkalinity levels.

Freddy, the system is 3ft wide x 3ft deep x 5ft long. I originally started with 1 x 400w (very naive), then onto 3 and finally when the halides failing I decided to upgrade to 5. IMO any less just won't do for the animals I try to keep.

It's summer right now and it's impossible to keep the temp down without employing a chiller (Aqua Medic 1500). It maintains the tank between 23-25.5C.

Des

Des,

Sorry did not see clearly the tank spec.

5 units of 400w lighting and able to keep the temperature to 23 deg to 25 deg.

Wow !!! that's great.

Does the chller takes a break or keep running always ?.

You can keep the beautiful catalina goby which not much people can keep due to the temperature.

[Joe_P]

Des,

Sorry did not see clearly the tank spec.

5 units of 400w lighting and able to keep the temperature to 23 deg to 25 deg.

Wow !!! that's great.

Does the chller takes a break or keep running always ?.

You can keep the beautiful catalina goby which not much people can keep due to the temperature.

Over here, its summer 365 days round...

Jus curious, do you guys ever need chillers during the not so summer days????

[hamannbmw]

they need heater

[desong]

Yes, we use heaters . But since the installation of extra halides I've not been needing them anymore.

I'm getting a few pm's from some of you and I thought it'd make more sense if I try and answer the questions on this thread in case others are interested plus it'd save replying to the same questions again individually.

Firstly I don't have any up to date full tank shot at hand but will try to take one in the next few days. As for the sump, here are a couple not so recent ones showing 3 species of Caulerpa. The sump is lit by a 150w HQI, 24/7.

Yes the tank does have some cynobacteria, mainly on part of the substrate that doesn't get an awful lot of flow. This is seasonal however - summer months mainly where longer daylight and elevated temperature triggers growth. Some also exist on the walls of the refugium but the density and growth of the macros do not allow it to settle.

Ken, I use Miracle Mud. I have no idea whether they have a stockist in Singapore. I'd suggest you try contacting them at ecosystemaquarium.com

All the best,

Des