Review of Joe_P's calcium reactor

[FuEl]

Hmm..ok...decided to do this before my com dies on me once again..anyway...think Joe_P is gonna name his line of Ca reactors as 'Reef Maniacs'?

Mine is the smallest version...one name he had in mind for it was Reef Maniac Miniature.

I have tried using 1 bubble every 7 seconds, drip rate once every 3 seconds. Effluent was 54dKH.

So far so good, managed to hold my KH values around 10. Never seemed to be able to do so when I was dosing manually.

Still in the process of tweaking it...

The parts used in construction are of high quality. Even the joints are built to last. Think this unit will last me a looongggg time.

Below is a pic of it. It's next to a sump of 2X1X1

[FuEl]

A close up of the reactor...in case it seems to small.

[Nautical]

FuEL, now it's all coming back to me. The pics reminded me of my home theatre setup and computer station. All those electical wires, etc. are like spaghetti. Wat's your opinion about hiding and enclosing them in flexi tubing. Any kind advice wud be appreciated.

[FuEl]

eh? Could'nt be bothered....I'm a messy person.

[weileong]

I am using the larger unit.

Got the latest reading.

CO2 = 1 bubble every 7sec

Effluent = 1 drop/sec

Effluent readings as follows:

pH 6.64

kh = 54 dkh

Ca = 720ppm

kh and Ca done with salifert test kit in 1/2 res

pH with my dennerle pH controller, 2 points calibrated before reading.

My main tank reading.

pH 8.38

kh = 9.6 dkh

Ca = 420 ppm

Same like you bro Fuel, I had problem holding the kh at 10 before the CR. Always like to drop to 6-7. Now no more problem and my tank pH also remains between 8.2 to 8.4 for a 24 hrs period.

[FuEl]

Hmm..think i better make myself clearer

I'm using the smaller unit compared to weileong's.

1 bubble every 7 seconds.

Effluent drip once every 3 seconds.

Give me 54KH and 710ppm of calcium.

Effluent pH (not measured)....

Test using salifert test kits at normal resolution for KH and 1/2 resolution for calcium.

Bro weileong got around the same reading as mine although his effluent drip was 1 drop per second. Think it's because his unit was the larger one. Enabling more CO2 to react with more media.

[Joe_P]

Hmm..think i better make myself clearer

I'm using the smaller unit compared to weileong's.

1 bubble every 7 seconds.

Effluent drip once every 3 seconds.

Give me 54KH and 710ppm of calcium.

Effluent pH (not measured)....

Test using salifert test kits at normal resolution for KH and 1/2 resolution for calcium.

Bro weileong got around the same reading as mine although his effluent drip was 1 drop per second. Think it's because his unit was the larger one. Enabling more CO2 to react with more media.

There shouldn't be much of a concern here....

There are many factors that would affect the performance of CRs... other than sizings...

issues, like quality of media, whether the CO2 tubings are leakproof etc does contribute to slight variance in results... (Hmmm, regarding this.... was wondering whether the grade of CO2 does give different results..??)

Not to forget that Weileong's unit runs on a eheim 1250... therefore resulting in more water flow and also his recently acquired CO2 precision control valve ...... (better control)

I have received readings from the other reefers ... both large and small units....Readings so far have been pretty close to what you guys have been getting.....

You don't have to lose sleep over this...

[Maxima]

I am using the larger unit.

Got the latest reading.

CO2 = 1 bubble every 7sec

Effluent = 1 drop/sec

Effluent readings as follows:

pH 6.64

kh = 54 dkh

Ca = 720ppm

kh and Ca done with salifert test kit in 1/2 res

pH with my dennerle pH controller, 2 points calibrated before reading.

My main tank reading.

pH 8.38

kh = 9.6 dkh

Ca = 420 ppm

Same like you bro Fuel, I had problem holding the kh at 10 before the CR. Always like to drop to 6-7. Now no more problem and my tank pH also remains between 8.2 to 8.4 for a 24 hrs period.

Friend, your effluent got major problem. If I'm running mmy CR with such effluent on my SPS tank at 4~6drops/mintue, I tank long crash liao!

[Joe_P]

Friend, your effluent got major problem. If I'm running mmy CR with such effluent on my SPS tank at 4~6drops/mintue, I tank long crash liao!

errr... max...

you sure you read the post correctly???

Effluent = 1 drop/sec

where did you get the 4-6 drop per min???

[Maxima]

I actually meant with effluent of PH6.64, if you run the reactor with such effluent in a highly stocked SPS tank @ high effluent rate of 4L~10L/hr, the low effluent PH will bring down the Tank PH too much and crash the tank. With effluent of PH6.64, I think my Deltec Calcium Reactor can produce 500dkh or maybe limestone

**************************

Effluent readings as follows:

pH 6.64

kh = 54 dkh

Ca = 720ppm

*************************

If Effluent is PH6.64, then the chamber PH will be as low as PH6.2 or PH6.3. -> this will already cause a melt down in the media and all the effluent coming out will be white thick calcium milk.

BTW a efficient or "working"reactor will have a effluent of above PH7.0

Something is wrong here............ and it's either the

Tuning or the Reactor

I'm trying to find out what his understanding of Reactor Concept?

When you review something, you need to to know what the concept and principles behind how that unit of equipment runs.

Max

[Joe_P]

I actually meant with effluent of PH6.64, if you run the reactor with such effluent in a highly stocked SPS tank @ high effluent rate of 4L~10L/hr, the low effluent PH will bring down the Tank PH too much and crash the tank. With effluent of PH6.64, I think my Deltec Calcium Reactor can produce 500dkh or maybe limestone

**************************

Effluent readings as follows:

pH 6.64

kh = 54 dkh

Ca = 720ppm

*************************

If Effluent is PH6.64, then the chamber PH will be as low as PH6.2 or PH6.3. -> this will already cause a melt down in the media and all the effluent coming out will be white thick calcium milk.

BTW a efficient or "working"reactor will have a effluent of above PH7.0

Something is wrong here............ and it's either the

Tuning or the Reactor

I'm trying to find out what his understanding of Reactor Concept?

When you review something, you need to to know what the concept and principles behind how that unit of equipment runs.

Max

Actually this is a point worth having a discussion on...

With understanding that most media burning within the 6.5- 6.8 pH range.... and ARM efficient dissovling within the 7 pH range, it is really difficult to see how any reactors can produce that kind of results based on what you classify as "efficient"......

It jus doesn't make any sense.....

I did contact Weileong as to whether the effluent or the reactor chamber as being milky but the results is so far negative....

[roidan]

i run mine this way..

effluent: 1 drop/second

bubble rate: 1 bubble per 10 seconds

effluent ph: 7.0

dkh: 25

calcium: did not measure

probably have to increase the bubble count to produce more dkh if not enough to sustain my tank consumption

[Maxima]

I think you don't understand my statement earlier. The ARM melts at PH7 or below. If you pump your chamber to PH6.2~ PH6.3 and get effluent PH6.64 -This is fine, but dkh of 54dkh is way low for a a reactor running such low PH. I believe whoever got a Korallin, beside my Deltec, can take a measurement of their effluent or chamber PH.

The basic benchmark to evaluate the efficiency of a Reactor using ARM, Korallin or Aquacare Media - All these media are design to melt at PH7.0 and below and will "melt down" beyond PH6.5 -produce whitish calcium milk. What do not melt? -Whatever residue have to be empty every year for ultimate efficiency.

1. Effluent must be above PH7.0

2. You don not need Chamber PH to be lower than PH6.5

3. You should produce effluent concentration 35dkh to 60dkh with effluent of PH7.0 or above.

Anything less, you will need to tune the reactor.

I think the problem "IS WITH THE TUNING". You should always tune to a effluent if 1 drop per second and play around with the CO2 rate. With such low effluent & CO2, I doubt your reactor is design to deal with such operating parameters???? No reactor in the world is design to deal with such low flow operation.

Plse do not take this as ................

Anyone can take this or RC and verify if I'm wrong - I do not think so. RC has a bigger pool of reefers and probably can offer their opinions. I've never see effluent of below PH7.0 classify as efficient

Maybe I should start charging consultation $$

Max

[Joe_P]

Maybe those guys with CRs might like to show some readings regards the pH...... esp those with the korallin...

wait a minute, I suppose to get a Korallin this few days ... shall check out its performance....

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...calcium+reactor

was with a fellow reefer last night and we were discussing about the Deltec registering high on dkH.... and it might be due to the amount of fine Calcium particles due to fluidised action ...

was mentioned by robe too in the thread..

If you follow the thread closely. It seems that they suspect the very fine ca. carb particles as the cause of the high dkh reading....

[Maxima]

Maybe those guys with CRs might like to show some readings regards the pH...... esp those with the korallin...

wait a minute, I suppose to get a Korallin this few days ... shall check out its performance....

http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...calcium+reactor

was with a fellow reefer last night and we were discussing about the Deltec registering high on dkH.... and it might be due to the amount of fine Calcium particles due to fluidised action ...

was mentioned by robe too in the thread..

Yes, Joe you are right. That's why when we talk the other day, I told you that dkh should be measure at least after 3 days of CR operation. I think putting dkh aside, the low effluent is an issue. I don't think reactor can be effective running at less than 1 drop/sec effluent drip rate. If you approach any European or US gurus, they will probably tell you to run it with a timer to shut it down.

There is some thread on RC on Reactor and it's effluent............worth reading.

Max

[Joe_P]

Yes, Joe you are right. That's why when we talk the other day, I told you that dkh should be measure at least after 3 days of CR operation. I think putting dkh aside, the low effluent is an issue. I don't think reactor can be effective running at less than 1 drop/sec effluent drip rate. If you approach any European or US gurus, they will probably tell you to run it with a timer to shut it down.

There is some thread on RC on Reactor and it's effluent............worth reading.

Max

Max, Thanks for the input.

The issue here actually deals with getting such high dkH with pH of 7 and above... currently to me seems a little unrealistic..... that is, with non fluidised reactors

I could only reason out that such readings registered on your deltecs is due to its fluidised capabilities.... maybe I should try exploring into how they function....

and here is where I would need your vauluable input since you do run a unit on your reef...

But as for now, I have been working with secondary chambers/dual chambers to improve efficiency....

[robe]

IMO whether the effluent from a CR can be as high a 7 or as low as 6.5 depends a lot on the reactor media. Maybe Tanzy can give his input as to what ph levl will a 100% pure calcium carbonate media will start to dissolve.

On another aspect, if you have more surface area in the media that you use then the corresponding effluent will have a higher concentration of dissolved carbonate if let say you have two similar calc reactor and running the same volumetric flow rate (recir pump). The more surface area exposed to the low ph liquid the better and that's the difference between a fluidised reactor from Delteq versus the conventional design.

A media that is constantly churned by the water circulation will have more surface contact, while a media in the conventional reactor is normally static and flow through the media is limited as channelling will occur as the reactor media settles down. The effect of channelling will mean that the water flow can only maybe contact 60% of the media surface versus a fluidised reactor which may have as much as 80%. This is hypothetic but if you want to go down to exact characteristics you need a supercomputer that can recreate and simulate fluid dynamics across irregularly shaped and sized particles.....

Efficiency is dictated by how much the reactor media comes in contact with the recirculated low ph water. On the output ph of the effluent, it will depend on the type and characteristic of the media......just my thoughts

[Joe_P]

On another aspect, if you have more surface area in the media that you use then the corresponding effluent will have a higher concentration of dissolved carbonate if let say you have two similar calc reactor and running the same volumetric flow rate (recir pump). The more surface area exposed to the low ph liquid the better and that's the difference between a fluidised reactor from Delteq versus the conventional design.

A media that is constantly churned by the water circulation will have more surface contact, while a media in the conventional reactor is normally static and flow through the media is limited as channelling will occur as the reactor media settles down. The effect of channelling will mean that the water flow can only maybe contact 60% of the media surface versus a fluidised reactor which may have as much as 80%. .........

I reckon that the only difference between a conventional built reactor compared to a fluidised one is the pump....

Put something that churns out more volume into a conventional one and the reactor would be in fluidised mode....that is also of course based on the media sizing....

not also to mention the amount of wattage required to run such pumps.....

Was also examining where the location of the effluent exits from the network of pipings in reactors as culprits to weird low readings in effluent pH.... noticed that in come models, the effluent is linked to the output of the pump... jus directly after the CO2 gets dissipated by the pump impellor...... was wondering how much CO2 gets released into the reef even before it gets into the chamber...... esp with reefs running on high effluent drip rates.....

[Maxima]

Taka a look at MTC dual Chamber, running a Iwaki. I'm sure this monster will GUN down a Deltec Calcium Reactor, if you do not take the extra 2nd Chamber media volume into consideration.

My take is

Fluidised Design +

Pump Rating + -> use the biggest pump size before over fluidising the media

CR design in positioning of CO2 intake+

CO2 reuse concept

Max

[FuEl]

Hmm..this might sound stupid...but won't attrition of the media break it into finer material? Meaning it would break down sooner? Meaning more frequent replacement?

[ckpeh]

Pang, I have started running the dual-chamber unit.

Got the reading after running for 2 days.

CO2 = 1 bubble every 3 sec

Effluent = 1 drop/sec

Effluent readings as follows:

kh = 59 dkh

Ca = 640ppm

kh and Ca done with salifert test kit in 1/2 res

As for my main tank reading.

kh = 9.6 dkh

Ca = 390 ppm ......

[weileong]

Had 2 improvement to my Joe_P CR.

A 2nd chamber was added as well as CO2 recycling.

Now the excess CO2 collected on top of the chamber gets recycled.

Cool. I love this !!!

[DeepBlue]

I still find mine cuter due to the shorter look

now if the beckett sits beside it ...................

[weileong]

bro, don't suan me pls.....

Yours don't have the CO2 recycling yet That one very cool one lol.

Beckett again? Some bryopsis in my overflow box so thought might wanna go for dual beckett. But $$$$.

[Joe_P]

Yup... did miss out the wiring for CO2 recirculation for some setups...

So those with the CR ... pls PM me... if you want it installed....