Rating sales with reefer

[aStRoBo|]

Just to see the results, so our mods can decide whether to come up with a thread to rate those sellers.

[Weapon_Master]

Totally agree. Will help to keep people who constant aeroplane at bay. Genuine buyers will not be put off by this as well.

Kind of like a shit list.

[patgohch]

I don't agree with this kind of "aeroplane" behaviour.

However, if we understand how a business deal is struck, the buyer and seller must be responsible for their own actions. It's strictly between them.

IMHO, as a forum, we are not bound to "police" these business transactions, unlike CASE. Let's ask ourselves what's our bottomline in this forum...

Are we supposed to blacklist people? - what gives us the right to post people's personal details to warn others?

Please, the interest of this forum is for sincere reefers to share and acquire knowledge, in order to advance our hobby, NOT buy/sell things. Sure, we can facilitate...but that's about it, right?

From:

A fairly new reefer.

[RockyBoy]

Bro, what happens if somebody does the same thing to you? Surely you would be pissed right?

[arcanehacker]

Now... nobody said anything about "police(ing)" these transactions nor did anyone said reveal any personal information.

Its just to put up some rating system to let buyers/sellers be aware of the situation(s) or seller/buyer. Not saying we should ban them either. Just a blacklist and still according to other seller's or buyer's disgression.

So let say if the buyer is 'blacklisted'/rated & I'm selling stuff, its now according to me whether if I want to risk selling to that buyer.

See this blackmark/rating system would make one think twice about being a "pilot" here. And maybe if the "pilot" can explain himself within like few days, we can take away the blackmark too.

[marcvelous]

I agree that being fly aeroplane is not an entirely nice experience. I have been subjected to it as well but to suggest that a rating system be implemented for private transactions that is strictly speaking, none of the concerns nor the founding goals of this forum, is setting a dangerous precedent.

To quote fellow reefer patgohch

Let's ask ourselves what's our bottomline in this forum...

Are we supposed to blacklist people? - what gives us the right to post people's personal details to warn others?

Please, the interest of this forum is for sincere reefers to share and acquire knowledge, in order to advance our hobby, NOT buy/sell things. Sure, we can facilitate...but that's about it, right?

And to quote Achilles Tang himself

Therefore, it is the express objective of the Official Singapore Reef Club to:

1. Educate the new hobbyist to better understand the complexities and time/monetary efforts needed to properly setup, sustain and prosper his marine aquaria.

2. Teach hobbyists that knowledge leads to less mistakes made and creates savings in money, time costs, personal safety (yes, the marine hobby is dangerous in many ways).

3. Create the appreciation for all marine life and the need to be conscientious about how we create the perfect environment for our marine pets in terms of inter-species compatibility, environmental and feeding requirements and to not support the trade in well-proven species of hard-to-sustain species. We can help to save and protect livestock through our selection and buying patterns.

4. Use the hobby to teach our friends on the fragility of marine life and importance of keeping our seas and oceans free of over-exploitation and pollution.

All that I see is talk to educate and hopefully breed (pun intended) responsible reefers.

To be fair, AT and his team of moderators cannot be responsible for what goes on in our private lives, in this case what we choose to buy and sell. Does anyone seriously wish to see this wonderful forum degenerate into yet another draconian domain where you cannot do anything unless the authorities explicitly gives the consent to? Haven't we enough of that already?

What then of all the half-aeroplanes that is seen flying in this forum all the time? If you pay attention there are always a handful of forumers who always and without fail will ask for pics for every sales thread and henceforth never to be heard from again. Were they trying to boost their posts-count and rankings while wasting time and effort of the sellers? Only they themselves know.

Let's cultivate some self-awareness and independence amongst ourselves instead of trying to impose a new rule for each and everything. Always remember that everyone is different and has differing views. Do we have to sacrifice the less priviledged minority? And to what cause?

Just my humble opinions

[patgohch]

Please don't get me wrong.

There's another thread here that suggested revealing people's particulars and "blacklist" them...

Back to the point on rating.

Rating, IMO, may not be worth the effort. People can change nick right? We impose on the moderators to do "extra" for something that does not really support the interest of this forum? Let's be focused on our objectives here in this forum. It is already good enough that a "Pasar Malam" sub-forum has been created for our convenience. Sure, if it happened to me, I'll be pissed. But who to blame? We'll just have to be careful ourselves, maybe demand for payment before handing over the stuff. For the seller, maybe make it a point to provide photos and honest description of the goods etc...

So far, the forum has given me the impression that the moderators are men of integrity, honest in trying to advance this hobby. Let's keep it this way. If you really want to buy/sell things seriously, do it at other auction sites, they have good systems. Let's not impose on the moderators, or dilute the spirit of this forum by opening up an avenue for "finger pointing"....

Just my objective opinion....no hard feelings, only for honest debate.

[reeflobang]

To avoid people flying aeroplane, I usually adopt "first come first serve approach" instead of reserving it for anyone. So far this works fine for me. If you tell the person that its reserved for them and they may get the idea that they could take their time.

I agree with the point that kanna aeroplane is frustrating but don't think rating them will help as pointed out by others earlier.

[aStRoBo|]

I don't agree with this kind of "aeroplane" behaviour.

However, if we understand how a business deal is struck, the buyer and seller must be responsible for their own actions. It's strictly between them.

IMHO, as a forum, we are not bound to "police" these business transactions, unlike CASE. Let's ask ourselves what's our bottomline in this forum...

Are we supposed to blacklist people? - what gives us the right to post people's personal details to warn others?

Please, the interest of this forum is for sincere reefers to share and acquire knowledge, in order to advance our hobby, NOT buy/sell things. Sure, we can facilitate...but that's about it, right?

From:

A fairly new reefer.

I'm just worried with the reefer welfare. Of being cheated, of being wasting ur trip to go all the way out to meet someone, and the seller or buyer dun appear. So, i dun see why u need to make this till so complicated. Thank u.

[marcvelous]

So, i dun see why u need to make this till so complicated. Thank u.

I don't think patgodch has anything against you or your idea. For that matter, neither do I.

As mentioned earlier, it's not fair to the mods to monitor something that is not the primary goals of this forum (remember: education). The Sell Off/Pasar Malam thread exists solely to help reefers trade off unwanted items. Our worry is that if it gives them so much trouble, they might just shut it down altogether. Who's the biggest losers then? Not the irresponsible pilots but us.

aStRoBo|, I see that you have mellowed from your initial request that nicee be banned.

If you can accept, IMHO, you can simply resurrect your initial thread with additional posts mentioning that ###### reserved for yyy is still available due to yyy let aeroplane.

That way, you get renewed interest in your sales and at the same time warning others of yyy's possibly irresponsible behaviour. Kill two birds with one stone.

Isn't it much simpler and not complicated at all?

Just my humble opinions.

P/S: Please cool down. Rash minds only make more mistakes

[aStRoBo|]

Ok, i have cooled down, and i tink i have bring many reefers to attention. Mods, thanks for all the trouble. U may delete this thread and the previous thread. Ur help is appreciated.

[patgohch]

That's the way to go....applaud...

[junyong84]

lyk those kind on ebay and yahoo auctions...haha

[rainbowdarter]

We should provide honest details about the items that we're going to sell. I believe that nobody will ever "aeroplane" if full honest details are advertised. Some time ppls "aeroplane" cos due to unclear details about the items and were only told after communicated in the PMs.As a result...kena aeroplane.I won't penalised the pilot.

To named the pilot base on our own judgement is unfair and may creates turbulance of unhappiness....I don't want to see a SO/PMS become a war zone thread.

As a seller, we should give more information when dealing with the buyer as to prevent being "aeroplane".As a buyer too,we must keep our promise after dealing.

My Two Cents.

[nutx]

We should provide honest details about the items that we're going to sell. I believe that nobody will ever "aeroplane" if full honest details are advertised. Some time ppls "aeroplane" cos due to unclear details about the items and were only told after communicated in the PMs.As a result...kena aeroplane.I won't penalised the pilot.

[terryansimon]

but if the girlfriend has the final say over whether you sleep on the floor or outside the house, I think point 3 is valid. okay fine.

[anakjoh]

I think a rating is good - as consumers we should have our say and and influence lfs commercial behaviour - after all IT'S OUR MONEY WE ARE SPENDING.

However, may I suggest we rate only the good points and keep silent on the negative ones. For instance, friendliness, helpfulness, knowledge, etc.

Of course, such rating must be taken with a pinch of salt because there are many factors involved and could be abused. To be relevant it has to be updated periodically.

BTW such rating is good for reefers like me who live outside Singapore. It may also encourage some lfs to improve.

[aStRoBo|]

Thank you for responding, but i dun tink it's alrite for us to rate LFS openly in the forum, or else we will get into trouble. And, i dun think mods here will do any action regarding this already.. so i consider case closed.. sigh.

[Siput]

There was an LFS who took some members to court in the US sometime last year...very thin line between feedback and libel...